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Nostalgia = big money - Don Simons - 15-09-2008
Can anyone else understand an administration of a country with such a heritage of motorcycle road racing (and early car motor sport) not fully capitalising on it?
It is not that they don't do anything but the nod to nostalgia seems to be very luke warm and only in the margins.
Just click on the Goodwood Revival page below and try to imagine the net income from that event.
http://www.goodwood.co.uk/site/content/revival/default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Once you have looked at the video and read the list of participants just go back and note how often the IOM TT is mentioned. Then watch the bike segment, they are not Moto GP bikes they are TT and Manx bikes. So Goodwood is cashing in on the TT in a big way.
If the TT has such a powerful hold on tradition and nostalgia why isn't nostalgia being exploited in a big way on the Island? We hear about the Young Guns, Branding, New style, new wave, new,new, new but Old sells very well also.
The cradle of road racing with no museum and an admin. dedicated to a breath of fresh air? Hasn't anyone on the Island got the foresight that, perish the thought, there will be no TT one day? Only then they will suddenly realise the potential of nostalgia.
NOSTALGIA should be on the front burner now, nowhere else in the world has got a tenth of what the Isle of Man is squandering.
Also what better way of honouring those who have gone before than by keeping the thousands of stories, memories and names of the TT and MGP alive each year.
Perhaps an Historic week preceeding the TT races, including Billown. Stretch the tourist season, the longer they stay the more they spend!
![[Image: isle-of-man-logo.jpg]](http://r3vliberty.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/isle-of-man-logo.jpg){kind=logo}
"It will stand wherever you throw it."
RE: Nostalgia = big money - MV - 15-09-2008
Well said Don!
I dont always agree with you
(thats purely out of prinicple!)
Your comments here are very apt
Apart from the income at Goodwood ask people about how hard it is to get
in because of the popularity
Wheras, in the Island we dont even have the clasic bikes in the paddocek, never
mind a parade lap
Wake up TT before its too late
RE: Nostalgia = big money - shipleymanx - 15-09-2008
MV Wrote:Well said Don!
I dont always agree with you
(thats purely out of prinicple!)
Your comments here are very apt
Apart from the income at Goodwood ask people about how hard it is to get
in because of the popularity
Wheras, in the Island we dont even have the clasic bikes in the paddocek, never
mind a parade lap
Wake up TT before its too late
surely this is where the manx comes in.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - Don Simons - 15-09-2008
Mike if an atheist and a missionary can agree on something it must be important.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - sticky - 15-09-2008
Don you are so right about this and it continues to baffle me why the TT doesn't exploit one of the richest histories in motorsport. I think the answer is that the 2 wheeled world (Goodwood is primarily a car event) is very poor at not only appreciating but actually acknowledging it's history.
I live near the Prescott hillclimb venue in Gloucestershire and every year the VSCC hold an event for pre-WW2 cars and it is always the best attended meeting of the year. The attendances at Goodwood's 2 historic meetings speak for themselves.
When the classic TT parades began it gave me a chance to see the likes of Stanley Woods, Freddie Frith etc - priceless!
The attitude now seems to be that unless there's some corporate reason for it then it ain't happening.
It's a pity that new generations of TT fans will probably never get to see the machines and riders that made the TT what it is (or should I say 'was'...). The remaining heroes of the 50s & 60s won't be around forever - we should honour them while we still can.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - MV - 15-09-2008
That made me feel both angry (at the TT organisers) and sad, cos I know you are right!
RE: Nostalgia = big money - oggy - 20-09-2008
I as a regular attending TT supporter return because of the nostalgia that I have for the early days and would love it if the organisers would pamper me with the sights and sounds of the past. Do you think they don't realise or just choose for some reason to ignore the fact that there is probably a majority of TT serporters who are more than a little over 21. It's hard to believe that it is only just over twelve months since they were banging a big drum about the fact that the TT was 100 years old, what is that celibrating if not nostalgia. If they were to talk to the younge guns I think they would find most if not all of them have heros and memories of bygone racers and bikes, nostalgia is not the preserve of the old. Don I hope the words and the thoughts in this thread do not come to nought and that we see the old bikes and riders once more on the mountain.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - Don Simons - 22-09-2008
Oggy the TT needs thousands more like you, nostalgia is created every year so you don't have to be old to appreciate it.
So what can be done to extend the visitor season? What can be done to capture lifelong TT enthusiasts for the future? Here are a few ideas of the top of my head.
1. How about a ‘Welcome to the TT” pack for all visitors to the Island? This could be a professionally produced portfolio containing a full program of events, map, history etc. It could be subsidized by those businesses which stand to make the most out of visitors. Perhaps some discount vouchers would draw people to these supporters businesses. You know sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
2. Put all visitors on a mailing or emailing list so they can be kept informed of coming events, new developments on the Island, new hotels / accommodations, press releases, etc. In short get the messages out to the people that matter. The paying customers.
3. Subsidise the Steam Packet fares. Again spend money to make money, don’t try to make every post a winner, invest in the future.
4. Make a big event of the Parade Lap, two minute intervals so the public can know, see and hear each rider and machine. Groups of bikes arriving all together out of order just seems rushed and to many fans disappointing. Nostalgia has to be enjoyed not rushed out of the way as quickly as possible.
5. No TT Course license for champions.
6. Guided bus tours leading up to and during the TT at low cost. The more people know about the Course the more they will become experts and fall in love with the place. There are plenty of enthusiasts who could conduct these tours. Perhaps a few guest riders would contribute some time to this promotion.
7. Film nights during the TT showing large screen old films of the TT. We never get sick of them.
Playing up the events outside of the TT fortnight has got to pay dividends for the inhabitants. The Manx is different; it is more quiet, more classic and more relaxed. The Billown races are on a shorter circuit, they include more classes and classic bikes, and they have massed starts with close and exciting racing. There are even other sports such as rallying or cycling, etc which should be mentioned because believe it or not some people like more than one sport.
I am sure there are some marketing people out there with much better ideas than me.
We only have to ask ourselves WHY did so many people visit the centenary TT. To me it is a no-brainer.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - MV - 22-09-2008
Don, as usual, you come up with great ideas that dont stand a chance
Why?
Simple, they are far too good and sensible!
As long as we stick to the idea of the TT being a Superbike round
(well almost!) tradition will be forgotten
Still, keep up the good work Don
Perhaps the Chinese(should that be Japanese?) water effect will get through!
As for the comments about the Manx being "for" the Classic Parades, I disagree
Yes, have them there too, but its the TT that has the history and the current
events are the poorer for the absence of at least classic bikes in the paddock.
I have to say that I am keen on the idea of new technology being developed at
the TT (As in TTXGP) but not at the expense of real racers which in my opinion
should still be seen on the Mountain Circuit, and not Billown
Is it a cynical observation to say that we will only have TTXGP at the TT for
Honda to strut their stuff at their anniversary?
RE: Nostalgia = big money - DCLUCIE - 22-09-2008
Hi All, I am going to be slated for this but the history of the TT is just that. By all means celebrate the History of the event by having classic meetings and also big events like they had in Centenary Year in Laxey, Ramsey and Peel. I am sure people have no problem with that but why have a parade lap that is not well supported. We have seen for th last few years now, yes even the centenary lap was disappointing, especially in centenary year.
Classics already have the Pre TT and I love the event. I have to say I normally hate Classic machines but love the way that the Southern club keep the opportunities for the Classic lads to get a run out during the fortnight. Yes there is money to be made by running classic meetings but I still believe the weakest link in the race calendar is the parade. If it was well supported then I would say not problem, its unfortunate that it isn't the case.
I think that some of Don's ideas are great. Maybe the Manx should be cashing in on the opportunities and not the TT. I think that they already ask people for their e-mail and contact details as even I get all the rain forest through the door and by e-mail because I once took the ferry in January, so they do try, the people just have to tick the right boxes, but as always its down to the individual to do that and if there are not enough people ticking the box, then they may not be making the effort. I agree they should be making an effort, but can they.
Can I just give to an insight from someone who works for the Government at the Hospital. Each department is governed by what they call a head count, and they have to strictly work to that. I am not in management but do know that it is dammed hard to get extra heads working in departments where they are really needed and unfortunately even if you are snowed under and the walls are caving in the work is piling up, there is very very little chance of getting help in on a permanent basis. They may have the odd chance of getting temps in to do the work, but this has to come out of a budget that is already strapped. So at the end of the day they may not have to staff to do all that we really need to make the TT what it should be. So please don't have a go at them, they do try but may not be able to give us what we all need, even though they themselves might understand and even agree with what we are saying here.
For those of you who are about to say ' so its all down to money again', yes it is ... and believe me there is not enough to go around in that department and as for producing all the stuff by means of taking money from companies that make the most out of the tourist industry, well that would be down to selling the advertising space in the booklets, not as easy as you may think. Just look at the program, its mostly government advertising and TT sponsors already that have the space.
So sorry for being so blatant.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - thewitch - 22-09-2008
I love the history and the classics, but without modern racing each year, there will be no "history" or "classics" in the future. What we see as nostalgia was all new once...
RE: Nostalgia = big money - Arthur Lawn - 23-09-2008
'NOT WELL SUPPORTED' you're having a laugh. What you saw in 2007 was a restricted scaled down entry as many ex racers had their entries refused much to their disgust.
In 2003,there were a total of 70 ex TT riders in the lap of honour and 64 riders in the bike parade lap giving a total for the lap of 134.
In 2004 there were 73 ex TT riders and 63 bike riders giving a total of 136,and in both years further entries were refused.
Since then their would appear to be an element of the organisation who do not want to be trucked up with a Lap of honour/Parade and so its demise has occurred.
I make this statement from what a senior ACU official said to me in 2003 when they took over the organisation of it from the TT RIDERS ASSOCIATION who were the last ethusiastic organisers of the event
RE: Nostalgia = big money - MV - 23-09-2008
Arthur, I believe you have got it right.
Sad to say, this is not a natural decline but rather a planned abolition.
"We dont want it any more so WE will make it appear to be unpopular"
I do accept that there are increasing obstacles such as cost of insurance, but
these things apply to the racing itself, and we overcome it there.
No, I firmly believe that historical events have been planned out
As for making the Manx the focal point for the Classics, I cant afford to do both
so are you suggesting I stop coming to the TT?
Surely its not unreasonable to expect to see some classic machinery at the TT, if
only on display in the paddock and maybe fired up there?
Helen, your point about todays racer being tomorrows Classic is, of course valid.
However, I truly beleive that we need the cherishing attitude at the TT to make
sure this happens
I cant see Fireblades and R1s making it to Classic status if we dont nurture the
Classic attitude
RE: Nostalgia = big money - larryd - 23-09-2008
Arthur Lawn Wrote:Since then their would appear to be an element of the organisation who do not want to be trucked up with a Lap of honour/Parade and so its demise has occurred.
I make this statement from what a senior ACU official said to me in 2003 when they took over the organisation of it from the TT RIDERS ASSOCIATION who were the last ethusiastic organisers of the event
Arthur, you are dead right.
Allan Robinson himself told me this in 2003 - plus, of course, the TTRA "somehow" found it necessary to replace him as Hon Sec.
Hmmm.
The final insult was, of course, in 2007 when the powers that be refused him a ride in the Centenary Parade Lap.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - DCLUCIE - 23-09-2008
I did notice Arthur your stats ended in 2004 and they WERE supported well. You can hardly say this years parade lap was a great sucess, and also on another point there were 4 accidents during the centenary parade lap with the old heroes coming off.... this just can not happen on a parade lap of the TT course. We get enough stick for the racers coming off and hurting themselves never mind the odd bloke going around in a parade lap. I know a couple of marshals who hate the parade because its only a few bikes and they want to get home after a full week of standing out there for the races.
IF the parade was better supported and had a few more interesting bikes out there other than a few bikes that were never used at a TT, then we wouldn't be have this thread. The fact is, its not being supported, and if you guys on here want to get a list of people you definately know would ride and also qualify to do a parade lap then lets have a list...... but they definately have to be able to turn up and ride, you can not have someone who says 'yes I would love too' and then not bother to turn up, as this is the case with so many that have offered before... and this is why there are so few out there....... and this is why you have the situation where a parade is now a farce.
Lets have a TTWebsite parade during next years TT ...... I for one would love to be involved in organising it ..... I love old bikes, I love the history, the sights, the sounds and most of all the smell of that Castrol R.... which is why I love the Pre TT classic event, full of great characters and full of greatly loved machines ... that is what I would love to see ... not 10 ior 15 bikes going around for the sake of it ....
RE: Nostalgia = big money - Arthur Lawn - 23-09-2008
This years parade did not exist.It was a demonstration of the Ducati racing involvement over the years and Sammy M falling off appeared to have been the highlight of the event. I expect for Ducati read Honda in 2009.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - Don Simons - 24-09-2008
My one and only experience of Parade Laps.
In 2000 I went to the TT for the first time after following it from the 60s. The Parade Lap included Ago on an MV and many others so I was very keen to see my heroes and their machines that I had only seen in British motorcycle magazines and films. We situated ourselves above the exit to the Ramsey hairpin with program in hand and clutching our transistor radio and eagerly awaited what I thought would be one of the highlights of our visit. The riders were listed in their order and they left the line on time so we settled in for a wait till they reached us. Then we could hear the beautiful exhaust notes as they roared into Ramsey below us, very quickly they were on us. A group of 3 or 4 bikes with heaps of noise and people calling out names but I must admit it was all too much to take in and appreciate in one hit. This situation continued until the end, I did see Ago and sort of got to hear the MV above all the others around him which was great. However we felt a little bit disappointed as virtually none of the riders came around by themselves so we could not appreciate the sight and sound individually. There will be a thousand reasons for this but if I could make a suggestion then it would be to let the riders go at, at least two minute intervals in the correct order so the fans could identify them. So I can understand those who think the Parade Lap is pretty much a waste of time but it may be that it just has to be done a bit differently. If the TT is going in 10 years time then today’s heroes and bikes will be in the Parade Lap. If we pull the shutters down on the past then the audience will be narrowed and that cannot be good in the long run.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - pat slinn - 24-09-2008
Don Simons Wrote:My one and only experience of Parade Laps.
In 2000 I went to the TT for the first time after following it from the 60s. The Parade Lap included Ago on an MV and many others so I was very keen to see my heroes and their machines that I had only seen in British motorcycle magazines and films. We situated ourselves above the exit to the Ramsey hairpin with program in hand and clutching our transistor radio and eagerly awaited what I thought would be one of the highlights of our visit. The riders were listed in their order and they left the line on time so we settled in for a wait till they reached us. Then we could hear the beautiful exhaust notes as they roared into Ramsey below us, very quickly they were on us. A group of 3 or 4 bikes with heaps of noise and people calling out names but I must admit it was all too much to take in and appreciate in one hit. This situation continued until the end, I did see Ago and sort of got to hear the MV above all the others around him which was great. However we felt a little bit disappointed as virtually none of the riders came around by themselves so we could not appreciate the sight and sound individually. There will be a thousand reasons for this but if I could make a suggestion then it would be to let the riders go at, at least two minute intervals in the correct order so the fans could identify them. So I can understand those who think the Parade Lap is pretty much a waste of time but it may be that it just has to be done a bit differently. If the TT is going in 10 years time then today’s heroes and bikes will be in the Parade Lap. If we pull the shutters down on the past then the audience will be narrowed and that cannot be good in the long run.
RE: Nostalgia = big money - T-M - 25-09-2008
DCLUCIE Wrote:I did notice Arthur your stats ended in 2004 and they WERE supported well. You can hardly say this years parade lap was a great sucess, and also on another point there were 4 accidents during the centenary parade lap with the old heroes coming off.... this just can not happen on a parade lap of the TT course. We get enough stick for the racers coming off and hurting themselves never mind the odd bloke going around in a parade lap. I know a couple of marshals who hate the parade because its only a few bikes and they want to get home after a full week of standing out there for the races.
IF the parade was better supported and had a few more interesting bikes out there other than a few bikes that were never used at a TT, then we wouldn't be have this thread. The fact is, its not being supported, and if you guys on here want to get a list of people you definately know would ride and also qualify to do a parade lap then lets have a list...... but they definately have to be able to turn up and ride, you can not have someone who says 'yes I would love too' and then not bother to turn up, as this is the case with so many that have offered before... and this is why there are so few out there....... and this is why you have the situation where a parade is now a farce.
Lets have a TTWebsite parade during next years TT ...... I for one would love to be involved in organising it ..... I love old bikes, I love the history, the sights, the sounds and most of all the smell of that Castrol R.... which is why I love the Pre TT classic event, full of great characters and full of greatly loved machines ... that is what I would love to see ... not 10 ior 15 bikes going around for the sake of it ....
When was a TT Parade lap ever not well supported? The Ducati 'parade' was a joke, the parade of champions was ok but not enough to hold interest all around the course.
Don Simons is right, everywhere else cashes in on Isle of Man motorsport history and nostalgia except the Isle of Man!!
RE: Nostalgia = big money - DCLUCIE - 26-09-2008
T-M Wrote:When was a TT Parade lap ever not well supported? The Ducati 'parade' was a joke, the parade of champions was ok but not enough to hold interest all around the course.You miss my point. This is all about cashing in on nostalga. Why just have a parade lap. I hate them because of the following reasons 1) No matter what you say, they are not well supported, getting figures from the old programs does not show how many people actually started the lap. There are loads of people who just don't bother to turn up. And also 2) The number of crashes last time we had about 40 of them go around didn't do the TT any favours. In fact it created unwanted press in addition to the load the TT gets already. 3) None of the parade members go around in order so that the spectators can follow who they are actually watching. This has already been pointed out in this thread. 4) You can not compare Goodwood festival of speed to the TT. Goodwood has one heck of a lot more to offer the classic and the current enthusiast than the TT. Goodwood this year alone had 60 past and a few current world champions there. It encompassed both cars and bikes together. You had Lewis Hamilton, Carlos Seinz to name just two. You have teams from F1, World Rally, Motorcycle trials, road racing and also sprint. You had a heck of a lot more than the TT can offer and also Goodwood is better serviced by roads and also airfields, it even has one of its own. So don't even try to compare the two.
Don Simons is right, everywhere else cashes in on Isle of Man motorsport history and nostalgia except the Isle of Man!!
I totally agree that the TT should making more of its history. But a parade lap is not what I would like to see. I would like more than just that. How about the whole of Ramsey or Laxey taken over a TT heritage site for the week. A place those who love the old stuff can go and see regular parades along the prom and hear the loved machines of the past. Have 'meet the stars' days where you can meet the heroes of the past, have photos taken with them, answering questions and put the things you most wanted to know to them in person. Exhibitions all over the area so that there is an opportunity to see more because too many people in one place is not a good idea. Have a look at the motorsport calendar and see if anything fits in, and invite teams over. That is what I would like to see not just a parade where a few old blokes wander round in an hour.