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+--- Thread: 4 disqualified in mondays race (/showthread.php?tid=23130)
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RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - GTUK - 01-09-2016
Another view: https://www.facebook.com/mistralclassic/
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - eman1948 - 01-09-2016
Having just read the above on Face Book it`s sad that officialdom and over opinionated scrutineers who think they are bigger than the sport are likely to ruin what is/was supposed to be a more relaxed/ fun event. I hope those that have been disqualified do not turn their back on the event (and believe me I would not blame them if they did) because they are what the event is all about not a load of pompous self important lame brained idiots who should be banned from ever officiating again with anything to do with the Manx,Classic or TT.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - scaramanga - 01-09-2016
you cant use half a mm bigger piston but you can use internals from a bike much newer than the 1 your supposed to be riding ????
the rules need to be made clear and fair
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - bud62 - 01-09-2016
Maybe had something to do with the fact that the official TT lap record for a 750, (set by Jim Moodie on a full factory RC45 with qualifying tyres fitted), was beaten? ZXR750's were fast bikes no doubt, but they were no match for the last of the RC45's.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - Bangerman - 01-09-2016
In reply to eman1948 I feel that it may be he who is opinionated, not the scrutineers. Nor are they by and large officious. You can of course get the odd one who is, but you get that in all walks of life. In this case they were simply doing their job, and would have been instructed so to do by the Clerk of the Course (Race director if you prefer). As one who has raced in the Island and sponsored others for over 40 years, I recognise the important part the scrutineers play, and have been grateful for the odd occasion on which they have picked me up on something which I or other team members may have overlooked. They are all the final safety check before the bike goes onto the circuit.
The situation which has happened this year has in my opinion occurred because the promoters of the Classic TT decided not to do any post race checks as happen at the TT and the Manx Grand Prix and this has been the situation until this year. Since last years races I am informed that a number of "sponsors" have questioned the different policy between the 3 events and that presumably has lead to the re-instatement of those checks. Given those circumstances it can easily be seen why some entrants may have believed that they were safe in running oversize engines, only to be caught out by the policy change.
As for the riders, they may provided with a motorcycle by an entrant described lets say as a Yamasuki 750 with only the assurance from the entrant that that's what it is. From my own experience it is very unlikely that they would have any direct knowledge of what is in the motor, let alone what the actual capacity is.
In summary please give the scrutineers a break, and recognise their important role, together with the marshals, and without either of whom there would be no racing.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - AntG - 02-09-2016
Well these bikes are supposedly replicas so I'm guessing with the advances in manufacturing technology the engines and brakes will be more powerful, better suspension and tyres then those laps are possible. I still don't know the ins and outs of Dunlops bike because when he first started racing that Suzuki in the Post Classic Senior at the Manx Grand Prix it was a 1000cc engine but for some reason or other it's crept up to 1200cc and as much as I love the old 500 2 strokes, why that YZR500 is allowed to compete is beyond me, it's a Grand Prix machine not a Superbike. Also as regards to cheating it was rife in the "golden days" of the sport.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - matjaq - 02-09-2016
My twopennorth:
1) It's not the riders fault they more than likely are not aware;
2) It's common knowledge that combining internal parts (crank etc.) from different models of ZXR gives a bigger cc engine (as run in the TT quite legit. by Blair Degerholm for one);
3) Last year some teams (that I spoke with) expressed dissatisfaction with a perceived inconsistency and advantage held by the XR69s which are not 'period' (arguably by some but I would agree they aren't albeit I really like the bikes) v the later mono shock bikes e.g. ZXR, RC30.
4) Rumours were also about last year that at least one of the ZXRs was oversize and that if the Classic TT is a 'show' race where rules can be flexed then the other teams running ZXRs might as well follow suit to at least compete against each other if not against the much larger cc XR69s.
So my speculation is that in anticipation that a big engine would not be a problem more teams opted to build one this year then were caught out by a change in scrutineering practice. If Mistral are correct in the assertions they make on Facebook then inconsistency remains. It seems hard to ask teams to guess if the rules will be applied or not or how?
Let's not forget the Mountain course is unforgiving and it takes a huge cost, effort and courage to race it, seems to me only respectful to be clear where everyone stands.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - b5070 - 03-09-2016
Nothing but a freaking shambles, that detracts greatly from the magnificent efforts put together by all teams and their riders. I love the concept in principal, but abhor the blight this has put on the whole meeting. Heads should roll, as there HAS to be a strictly adhered to protocol, which appears to have disappeared up the ars+s of those TOLD to not talk. One of the chief 'Scrutes' is a friend, and I'll ask him to be truthful with me ---- ? A supposedly World class event, has fallen foul of discrepancies, that may well see less interest in leading Teams attending next year -- is that good 'press'?
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - DBD 34 - 03-09-2016
Totally agree, think they need to bin the entire organization (loose term) committee and rebuild in time for next years TT.
Obviously this won't happen because they are not going to sack themselves now are they.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - cregnybaa - 04-09-2016
(31-08-2016, 04:51 PM)sticky Wrote: Question....
If a ZXR750 has an 840cc engine and gets disqualified why is it alright to have an XR69 (originally based on the air cooled GS1000 motor) with 1100 or 1200cc oil cooled engines?
Because the rules say you can, but they limit the 750s to 750 simple. they all sign the entry form saying they have read and understood the rules. this has been going on for quite some time now maybe this will put a stop to it.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - cregnybaa - 04-09-2016
(31-08-2016, 05:35 PM)Malcolm Wrote: Horst Saiger post on FacebookSo who exactly was it that said to you it was a show, as all the of the competitors I know didn't realise it was such. there may not be any prize money but certain teams/people do get money and I see no reason why your team would not be one of those.
My Statement
It's not funny to be disqualified and there are a lot of rumors, so I feel I need to say how I see the whole thing...
For me the Classic TT is a festival and show, the regulations say everything:
The organisers retain the ability to accept an entry for a machine that is not compliant with these regulations if in their view it will enhance the spectacle of the racing.
There's no price money and no championship. 750s against 1300s, handmade high tech bikes against old standard bikes out of a shed, big teams with professional riders against absolute amateurs.
To be honest I didn't take the whole thing too serious. I was just happy to have a good bike with a good team behind it, so I can ride safely around the mountain course.
No, I didn't know that my bike was out of regulations... but I didn't ask and that's only because I didn't really want to know! After the parc ferme my team boss Angus Greenall came to me and told me: Sorry Horst, you're out. Your pistons are 0,5mm too big. It was only a money thing as the 72,5 mm pistons would have been special parts and 3000£ whilst the 73mm are standard at 40£ each.
For sure it was not right and he could have used smaller pistons, but I think he didn't take it too serious as well. He and the whole team are just putting a lot of hard earned money and hundreds of hours in these bikes to give me the best possible bike to be part of this spectacle. I'm not angry with him and I think I would have ridden the bike also when I knew it was out of regulations by 0,5mm – because nobody that I know in the paddock would think that half a millimeter makes any difference at the result! I feel very safe and comfortable on the bike when I know the Greenalls are behind it and that is the main thing for me.
The whole paddock now learned that the Classic TT is not longer a show event, from now on it's proper racing – even the difference in bikes and riders is enormous.
I will stay with the team if they keep on doing the Classic TT and I would be happy to have them behind me with my own racing at the roads as NW200, TT and everywhere else.
Sorry for my englisch....
PS: what does these words in the rules mean?:
* The onus of ensuring the eligibility of any machine rests solely with the competitor.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - Bangerman - 05-09-2016
Paul Phillips has stated it is a show
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - cregnybaa - 05-09-2016
(05-09-2016, 08:40 AM)Bangerman Wrote: Paul Phillips has stated it is a show
But its official title is IOM classic TT Races.
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - Bangerman - 05-09-2016
Maybe you should sue for mis selling, but he has stated that they are a show !
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - luca - 06-09-2016
iomtt.com Classic TT site, after publishing the "Results-revised" pdf of the race, removed also the "Lap-by-Lap" pdf.
Anyone downloaded it in time??
Many thanks
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - Goldfinger - 06-09-2016
@Luca: Still online! Follow the Links in Malcolms Monday 29th August Race Day Thread.
Just beat me to it:
http://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=23065
Malcolm
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race - luca - 06-09-2016
Great! Many thanks Goldfinger.