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RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - Ben Oates - 27-05-2008
I have to agree with most of the comments in this thread. I have never seen a TT this quiet with such a dull atmosphere. I haven't spoke to anyone yet who has a different view.
The event is now being run and controlled by health and safety conscious profit making organisations. It's hard to envisage where this leaves the future of the event. In order to keep the masses happy, amongst many other things, they will need to take a step backwards with respect to the prohibited areas and be upfront with the public, but could that ever realistically happen?
Beepee, we will be lucky to see 60 starters in a race next week, very lucky.
The Greatest Free Show On Earth ... - ian huntly - 27-05-2008
Have any of you been to Monte Carlo for the Formula One car racing ?
Seriously, after 61 years, I now accept the costs because the TT is the special unique event.. Two weeks on an Island surrounded by bikes, birds and booze (I can dream at my age) and something to do every minute.
We are LUCKY it doesn't cost more, in the light of the way the pound buys a lot less than it did only just a few years ago.
The cost of petrol to run me up from Reading to Liverpool was OBSCENE this year and I am certainly not doing my ten laps of the course in the car this year.
In 1974 we could get a full tank of petrol for what we pay now for a large bunch of bananas.
Personally, I am as enthusiastic about the TT as I have ever been...
Unfortunately some old friends have passed on but we make new ones each year who fill in the gaps left.......
Paul Phillips and his team are working wonders to take the TT by its boot straps and throw it into the future...
I have my wonderful memories and my loftful of souvenirs of my 61 years as a TTFan but I ADD to them now, and have given up bleating about the good old days... We can never bring them back.
Speeds rise each year making the results of any accident too awful to think about. But who decided on the places we can no longer stand.. I query some of them.......
It's called progress I guess.
Sit and think long and hard that we are fans of a unique annual event and we are privileged to be present at it.......................
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - shaun hogg - 27-05-2008
With respect Ian , appreciate what you are saying but as said earlier the atmosphere is flat at this TT , maybe it is the knock on from last year .
However i still disagree very strongly with tyhe charges being levied at the grandstand , as said during practice it is mainly the locals who visit the grandstand with there families just to have a look , the parents may not be interested in the racing but take there kids along as all parents do when something big comes to town .
Think of it you & your wife have a couple of young children you take them to the grandstand pay to park then pay your £ 5 each to go sit in the grandstand , what happens with most young kids , after 10 minutes they are doing your head in & want to go elsewhere , you are not going to pay it .
There has never been a charge for practice & there should never be a charge , not only are you alienating the local people from tthis great event , the traders in the area surrounding the grandstand are all going to be losing trade , it is commercialisation at ahigh price for the future if you ask me .
I agree Paul & his team have worked wonders with the racing side of events , making it a more proffessional event , but there are many things wrong which should not be happening , as i said i have spoken to many local enthusiasts whose enthusiasm is waning very quickly . Shaun
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - beepee - 27-05-2008
Would anybody care to hazard a guess as to when all this dissent and upset started and why.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - DCLUCIE - 27-05-2008
I will tell you when beepee, it was when the event was turned into a money making exercise to recuperate some of the costs that us manx tax payers have to stump up. Quite frankly I think that the post by PP is a crock as everyone knows the real reason they have to pay for the hire of the area is that it is used a part of the so called hospitality site, another money making idea for the teams. But then again its the humble supporters/spectators of the TT hat have to stump up the costs. Why not increase the cost for the teams and then agree that the cost for the spectators are reduced. I don't care if I have to pay through my taxes for the TT but don't for one minute try to make me believe that its because its not a money making idea that people are being charged so much.
Also why pay for parking and get nailed another load for the grandstand. Why not include parking in the £5 for the grandstand? If you have a ticket you can park. There was no-one again in the grandstand tonight apart from the competitors area. They have got to review this or they will get nothing back at all.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - David Griffiths - 27-05-2008
Put very bluntly, TT2008 has been absolute rubbish so far in my opinion - admittedly not helped by the February-style weather. If this is what the TT has come to - ripped off everywhere you go, hardly anywhere worthwhile to watch, very few bikes on the circuit, no variety, no atmosphere, constant negative publicity - then I really am starting to think that the Isle of Man is better off without it. And to think that up until very recent years I used to spend the whole year counting down the weeks and the days until the next TT. Even Billown is starting to go the same way now, with barricades everywhere - it was like Fort Knox down there on Monday, although at least you don't get ripped off to the same extent there. In fact, I had to laugh at the sign at the Billown food stall, which read something like 'avoid the TT rip-off prices - get your food here before you go'! Cutting, but fair comment!
Shaun's postings in this thread are spot-on in my opinion. Lose the interest of the youngsters and you are well on the way to oblivion - after all, it's today's kids who will be in positions of influence and authority in 20 years time. Very few youngsters these days are TT fans anyway compared with years ago - the majority of kids with sporting interests now are obsessed with football. I am heavily involved in the Manx athletics scene these days, and I can't think of a single youngster I know through athletics who has the slightest interest in the TT. When I was a kid, it seemed everyone was TT daft. Quite a change. How are we going to get the kids interested if it costs £25 for a family of 4 to park the car and go onto the grandstand for half an hour on a practice night?
Yes, I feel thoroughly depressed about the way the TT is in 2008 - and it would seem that I'm just one of many!
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - steve-e - 27-05-2008
Sounds like the TT is catching up with the rest of racing. It's all a rip off. Having to bumble through finding passes for your brother/sister/team to get into the paddock you are racing at. Then having to put a false tash on your sis to get in cos it's got your photo on it and you forgot to shave that week.
I personally think the TT is years behind the rest of racing in this and - shame as it is it was bound to happen.
You can't blame the organisers, def not PP who is trying to bridge the gap between the two positions better than Stu Higgs ever did when BSB stepped up a gear and went pro.
I could rant ( well, it's half eleven and I've emptied a few) but I won't
The TT has had a very privileged position as an almost elite thing the last few years where the regulars knew it was good and didn't let on to the unsuspecting. If it is going to move on it has to be more open and that means commercialising to make it pay for itself properly.
Do you want it to retain its status as the best thing in the World or be the race round your back garden in a small Island off the side of Wales ? ( come on, someone should at least bite at that
)
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - FC - 27-05-2008
The TT can not be compared to carpar races, The costs for spectators to get and stay here is far greater than that spent at the carparks. How many towns in the UK would put up with the disruption that the Islands residents have to NONE. Yes the TT is expensive to run but the IOM does well out of it, for every £1 brought to the Island by visitors is worth more than £10 to the locals by the time the first £1 has done the rounds, its called new money in circulation.
But the way the TT is being run now with all the charges visitors and locals will cut back on spending so the value on the original £1 will be far less.
Fare point about PP hes done a fine job with the races but the work hes done will be killed off by the greed of the others involved with the TT. better to have a slice of the cake than non at all.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - chris - 28-05-2008
I live in the IOM, and have been watching the TT for probably 60 years, and normally I am very positive with my views on the TT (and road racing in general). For the first time I feel quite negative with my views on the TT. I was dismayed to see it was £5 to go on the G'stand on Saturday, and although I do not park in the playing fields, I can well understand Shauns displeasure at paying £3 to park a car.
Instead of going on the G'stand, I decided to have a look through the fence at the holding area/parc ferme, but unfortunately you can no longer see through the fence, as there are now 'tented pits' along the length of the fence. I can understand why they are there, but it does not leave you with much of a view, unfortunately the view from Glencrutchery Rd is poor because of barriers which stop the public looking over the wall into the parc ferme. At the other end of the Grandstand to try and walk to St Ninians, you have to negoiate the maze of barriers. Although it is early in the practice week, and the weather has not been brilliant, the atmosphere at the Grandstand does seem ...................................................
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - Southernman - 28-05-2008
chris Wrote:I live in the IOM, and have been watching the TT for probably 60 years, and normally I am very positive with my views on the TT (and road racing in general). For the first time I feel quite negative with my views on the TT. I was dismayed to see it was £5 to go on the G'stand on Saturday, and although I do not park in the playing fields, I can well understand Shauns displeasure at paying £3 to park a car.
Instead of going on the G'stand, I decided to have a look through the fence at the holding area/parc ferme, but unfortunately you can no longer see through the fence, as there are now 'tented pits' along the length of the fence. I can understand why they are there, but it does not leave you with much of a view, unfortunately the view from Glencrutchery Rd is poor because of barriers which stop the public looking over the wall into the parc ferme. At the other end of the Grandstand to try and walk to St Ninians, you have to negoiate the maze of barriers. Although it is early in the practice week, and the weather has not been brilliant, the atmosphere at the Grandstand does seem ...................................................
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - Southernman - 28-05-2008
Other sports allow kids in for free on practice days, we should too.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - ian huntly - 28-05-2008
I have been reading everyones comments and have chatted to the tiny "crowd" at the grandstand and I have to agree that the Island is rather empty. However practice week always used to be the week when only the avid fans came over. I have always preferred practice week because it was quiet and I could get round and see things. We should start seeing ferries arriving from today/tomorrow with fans hanging off the sides......WE HOPE.
Having driven up and down the prom this last two days and not seeing the beginnings of the rows of bikes is a bit disturbing..
But that is me comparing the days when bikers stayed in hotels. Now they prefer to stay on campsites which remind me of Woodstock (USA Not Oxford) and try to keep warm/dry as the floods run under the tents.
Let's not write it off yet. Do any of you remember 1998 ??
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - missbiker - 28-05-2008
There's not the hotels to stay in, as they've been replaced by apartments, offices and the like. Home stay has been our only hope for accommodation, but the price is making us consider camping next year
I remember when Douglas prom was bike to bike from one end to the other - you don't see it any more
Having said that..............we are soooooooooo excited that we are coming over on Friday and hoping to see some fantastic but safe racing
Here's to a great TT08
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - Braddan_Bridge - 28-05-2008
I think following last years centenary its natural this one is a bit of a damp squid, the atmosphere last year was electric, having said that, it was my first visit to the island in 15 years for the TT havinbg lived there for quite a while, and i was shocked at the prices involved at being at the event. From entry to various parts of the course to the cost of just being there. Thia year due to unfortunate circumstances i have had to cancel last minute, but had the comfort i could listen live on the net. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If this continues, the TT will be finished in 5-10 years because no one will be able to afford to go to it. I saw one advert online for accomodation priced at £90 per night for a two bedroom flat, over the fortnight thats over £1200 jesus id want a villa in spain for that price fully inclusive.
The TT has always been pricey so has going to the Isle of Man, thats why they have virtually no tourist industry now, and if this continues that wont have a TT to fall back on to suplement there income.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - shaun hogg - 28-05-2008
Yes Ian i remember 98 as i am sure many do here the weather was horrible the whole period & the radio was appealing for people to offer there houses to get people in off the campsites who where having a dreadful time keeping dry , i think that is probably when the homestay thing kicked in .
Anyway back to my original gripe about people being fleeced , David you made a very valid point regarding the local children today , they have no real interest in the races , i have two kids , well 20 & 22 is not kids i would get a torrent of abuse for that , however my point is they have been brought up in a family , fanatical on the TT races having an uncle who raced , a hotel where many riders stayed & very many friends gained through the racing circle , no interest in the racing though in spite of my best efforts to get them interested its never happened .
I know when i was at school the TT riders where all heroes to us & we would regularly fight over who was going to be John Williams or Charlie Williams etc , we all knew there names & most of us went to the races .
Now there is no interest from the local kids who as you rightly say are going to be the future TT supporters , spectators , perhaps even riders , but they need there enthusiasm encouraged from a young age & given every opportunity to witness the TT , the grandstand offers the best possible viewing point for people with young families as it also has plenty of other facilities nearby for those that get fed up , the new policy of charging to sit in the grandstand is not going to give these kids the opportunity to see what we did no parents will pay to take there kids somewhere they are likely to get irratible & probably only pay attention for 10 or 20 minutes .
But if the seating was free that would not be a problem & who knows you may have the next Hizzy or Moly sat there , as it is it aint going to happen .
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - D.Marshal.chick - 28-05-2008
Hi Shaun,
I wouldnt lose faith re the Islands kids. I was a director with the IOMTTMA and last year we did an exercise going to 10 of the Islands primary schools to talk about the TT. It was huge fun and the children were well up on the TT and full of enthusiasm. I think that exercises like this are very important and you are right they are the future and need to be encouraged.
Sadly I have to work this TT so can't marshal but when I do (sector 1) we always have loads of kids watching and asking questions. we just have to work on ways to keep that passion going.
Have a good one.
Cheers
Debs McCann
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - oatssi - 28-05-2008
I have read this thread with some degree of horror. Some of the posters here are stalwarts of the TT so for them to have such a bad take on this year's event is very worrying. The centenary was always going to be popular so this is the first year the new organization structure can be judged and it seems to be falling short in my opinion.
Firstly, let's get a couple of things straight. If you get 50,000 visitors going to the TT each spending on average GBP800 for travel, accommodation, food, drink and a program that is GBP40million going into the Manx economy. Add to that the increased spend of the locals traveling to see the races, buying a program, eating and drinking (say 35,000 (perhaps optimistic these days) spending on average GBP100 each) which adds another GBP3.5million. So overall say GBP45-50million each year. The positive impact is actually higher than this. With that kind of return why are TT nickel and diming the fans? Surely additional funding should come from the government? This is an easy business case to build (most of it is set out above), either feed the asset or it disappears.
Fair play to Paul Phillips for getting a shiny new logo and cars, franchising everything and increasing the advertising revenues. But the policy of charging for everything is certain to backfire. How many people across the world would like to listen to radioTT but probably won't now? Perhaps they don't know what the TT is yet, or are just occasional fans. Very few of these occasional fans will be willing to pay the GBP15-20 to tune in. So there is one of the biggest sells of the TT to the world gone. The grandstand charges are well documented and for them to be introduced in a year when fans were lied to about the extent of prohibited area restrictions beggars belief in my opinion. Just compare the cost of the TT to any other motorcycle racing event. It is miles off the scale and that is crucial in Jonny Nobody deciding to sack it off in favor of something else.
Easy to criticize I know but some the decisions made this year make it very, very easy. Here would be my quick wins to get the wagon back on the road. Note that my overriding principal is that if you put on a good show the fans will come see it and everything else (manufacturers, riders, advertisers etc.) will fall into place.
1. Prohibited Areas
Being blatantly lied to about the extent of the changes was unacceptable. An apology is in order. It may be that some of the areas we have all watched at in the past were in fact prohibited according to a dusty old book but some knowledge of the real world would have been desirable here. If the show is to go on the current restrictions cannot remain. There needs to be a better solution for fans to waive (or understand that they have no) liability insurance. I for one go to races knowing that in very extreme circumstances I could get hurt but I don't for one minute think that I will then be able to sue. I urge the organizers to look into disclaimers as a way out of this mess. Another thought is to color code viewing areas into more dangerous and less dangerous areas, rather like ski runs. The more dangerous areas may well have less public liability provisions. I can tell you now it would be the 'more dangerous' areas that are packed (provided there are fans left).
2. Entries
38 mile lap with less than 60 bikes? You are having a laugh. Many people would rather see paint dry. More time should have been spent on getting more riders to practice. A goal of a minimum of 110 entries should be set with people designated as reserves if needs be (up to them if they travel - many probably will). Here is a list of riders I compiled just from a very quick review of the Macau GP and Northwest 200 entry list. Now some of these riders perhaps will never do it, some might with encouragement, others might just want to but have never been asked. This is just scratching the surface without looking at the World and British championships and other European road races such as Horrice, Frohburg, Rijeka, Chimay, Mettet, Hengelo to name a few. Many criticize the old guard of rider recruitment, sure they screwed up a few times but they did get hold of some quality foreign riders and never had a field as scarce as this year.
Michael Rutter
Steve Brogan
John Walsh
Jeremy Toye
Thomas Hinterreiter
Paul Cranston
Declan Swanton
Martin Jessop
Christian Elkin
James Redpath
Dave Woolams
Paul Gartland
Rob I'Anson
Patrick Van Gils
Michael Weynand
Steve Allan
Callum Ramsey
John Haner
Adrian McFarland
Barry Davidson
Donald MacFadyen
Matt Layt
If less money was spent on launch events and more on getting new names, there would be a much bigger bang for the buck. I don't care who turns up to the Villa in Feb. I want to see riders in June!
3. Marketing
Why advertise the TT in Bikesport news or Irish Racer (publications only really read by UK bike fans) less than a month before the start of the event? HELLO? People book their holidays in January! Also, how far is the net cast? Spain, Germany, USA, Croatia, far east? I live in the US and the UK, I have never seen it advertised in the mainstream media in either country. Who would come to the TT? Two sets of fans, young 20-30 somethings, 50+ born again bikers. That’s where the campaigns should be targeted. The young guns advertisements looked good but many new fans who might have come to the TT had no idea who was on those posters. John McGuinness wheeling in front of the crowd at Rhen Cullen would have a better impact but I guess you would get done by trading standards for that now.
Also, you have to spend to accumulate, i.e., provide free radioTT, Grandstands etc.
4. Safety
No more hay bales. If you believe that airbags/recticel is the right way to go now then it should be done now, not phased in. That is a issue to sell to the government. Also, no more exposed walls. If as much energy was put into placing portable safety defenses as there was cones and signage before every session the place would be much safer, create better headlines and be much more attractive.
5. Cost
Not easy. But the TT cannot remain uncompetitive from a cost perspective and attract any fans. The Big Weekender package was a decent start. It is important that the event is sold to the Government, not just the fans. Fan's can see a rip-off from a mile away and reputation is virtually impossible to recover. The Government can just see a fat asset getting smaller by the year. What is the problem here?
There should be publicly stated targets on all of these so the public can judge what kind of job the DTL is doing. Even the FA have these now!
No fans, no advertisers, no marshalls, no manufacturers, no teams, no riders, no TT, no jobs! Now that really IS dead simple.
Regards,
Alan
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - FC - 28-05-2008
Maybe another problem is the loss of start money to the privateers, speaking to a few of the riders so far the opinion im getting is that they are cheesed off with the big teams getting all the money, nothing going to the bread and butter of the meeting.
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - ancient - 28-05-2008
can anyone tell me wether its possible to visit the TT riders assoc 38th milestone without paying to get to it ? hope to get over for the manx so perhaps it will change on the departure of the audi crowd,,,,,i have experience of crawling on my tummy under wire to get into race meetings,but that was 50 years ago,perhaps an attractive lady could be used to distract the gatekeeper long enough to gain entry,,now who would be up to the job?
RE: The Greatest Free Show On Earth My .... - oatssi - 28-05-2008
According to Paul Phillips every rider at the TT is paid to come.