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+--- Thread: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 (/showthread.php?tid=19675)
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - wsn03 - 09-06-2015
Triumph start all production in the UK. When the product is stable they ship to Thailand where it is managed by sone of their UK management team; that frees up the UK plant for production of the next range of new models. They went to Thailand because they ran out of capacity in the UK...land with planning permission as much as anything - that's what they told us when walking round their Hinckley Factory. Given the ever steepening demand curve for their products it makes sense; all their R&D is UK based too.
Norton seems to me to be an ego trip, and a badly managed one at that. I can't ignore the wisdom in the comments made by a man as credible as Brian Crighton.
Such a shame, such a waste.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Allyshaper - 09-06-2015
(09-06-2015, 09:57 PM)Allyshaper Wrote:(08-06-2015, 02:31 PM)Latino Wrote:(08-06-2015, 11:29 AM)numptydad Wrote:Thing is that for probably less than a 1/10th of the money spent on the Norton you could go to your local HonKawaYamazuki dealer, buy a 1000cc sports bike, enter it as a Stocker and lap waaaaaay faster than that.(03-06-2015, 06:33 PM)numptydad Wrote: any danger that this year's bike can complete more than one lap?
Well, I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's hat (not really) - the Norton finished, 120 mph average - BUT Mr Hewson 36th 116+ mph average, on a 3 year old bike.
It's coming, Norton, but then so's Christmas
This is what I was talking about,hasnt it done what you wanted it to do? Just a thought,I started a thread on the old site a couple of TTs ago about building an all English bike allong the lines of the Tigcraft supertwin i did. at the time we couldnt think of an engine. What about the Triumph 800 triple engine? I checked the rules today I think its allowed in the senior. that would give me something to do now the twin has gone. Any ideas.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - numptydad - 10-06-2015
I also have been wondering whether the rules allow a triple in the bigger classes, which it appears they do, as you say, but 800 cc would be a bit low powered perhaps? Good starting point though, pity I haven't any money to kick into such a project, unless there could be what I believe is called these days " crowd funding" which might bring together like minded people, preferably with deep pockets!
anyway, good luck,
Dave
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Allyshaper - 10-06-2015
I didnt have the money to do the last one,but I did it,and I would do it again. I thought 800 triple because it would be allowed into the Manx senior. Tigcraft is up for doing another chassis,I am doing nothing since I sold the twin. I dont know about crowd funding,but I think if I had more financial help than I did with the twin project I could beat the Norton effort.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - R7A5B0 - 11-06-2015
(09-06-2015, 08:18 PM)Allyshaper Wrote:(09-06-2015, 08:02 PM)R7A5B0 Wrote: the sad thing about all of this is the norton brand is a viable one . the engineering capacity and desire has always been right here in the uk,but until someone of mr bloors capabilities gets the rights to the norton name all we will get is more fur coat and no knickers.
So you wouldnt mind if Nortons were made in Thailand then,would that still be a Norton?
to be fair,yes i would mind . i would rather see it made in the uk,the badge on the bike says what it is though, where it is made does not define what it is. the big problem with that is the uk mentality to manufacturing . make a company successful then sell it ,coupled with our p*** poor management capability ( strange when we appear to be turning into a nation of managers and wannabes ) and lack of desire to genuinely invest for the future. there are exceptions to this norm,but not enough.
running companies solely for the benefit of shareholders is another problem that kills investment. you only have to look at the big family owned firms in germany to see how a large manufacturing business should be run.
regarding the current norton situation, it might put a few pennies in some peoples pockets for a few years,but a new british motorcycling dynasty to rival triumph it will not be,and that is a shame. you only have to look at how well the other european manufacturers are doing to see it is a viable prospect.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - R7A5B0 - 11-06-2015
(10-06-2015, 11:45 PM)Allyshaper Wrote:(10-06-2015, 08:30 AM)numptydad Wrote:(09-06-2015, 10:02 PM)Allyshaper Wrote: This is what I was talking about, hasn't it done what you wanted it to do? Just a thought,I started a thread on the old site a couple of TTs ago about building an all English bike along the lines of the Tigcraft supertwin I did. at the time we couldn't think of an engine. What about the Triumph 800 triple engine? I checked the rules today I think its allowed in the senior. that would give me something to do now the twin has gone. Any ideas.I also have been wondering whether the rules allow a triple in the bigger classes, which it appears they do, as you say, but 800 cc would be a bit low powered perhaps? Good starting point though, pity I haven't any money to kick into such a project, unless there could be what I believe is called these days " crowd funding" which might bring together like minded people, preferably with deep pockets!
anyway, good luck,
Dave
I didnt have the money to do the last one,but I did it,and I would do it again. I thought 800 triple because it would be allowed into the Manx senior. Tigcraft is up for doing another chassis,I am doing nothing since I sold the twin. I dont know about crowd funding,but I think if I had more financial help than I did with the twin project I could beat the Norton effort.
that would be a fantastic project. a bit off topic, but i think triumph are missing a trick at the moment. a nice 900 or 1000 cc triple would go down a treat for someone like me that still wants to ride a sports bike,but is getting near the point where having to rev the tits off the current crop of big bikes is getting too much like hard work,and is even worse if dropping down to 600cc.
a fireblade with a cb 1000r engine in it would probably be my ideal bike at the moment.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - KypDurron - 12-06-2015
I'd love to see Cam get back on a competitive bike because I think he's slowing down across the board from not being on a competitive bike, but I'm sure Norton is paying him a fairly good sum and he's providing for his family well.
You can't fault a man for that.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - c iom tt - 12-06-2015
Or it would be interesting to see how the Norton would go with one of the current top runners on it.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Allyshaper - 12-06-2015
How did it get on? Just got in the door.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Dingocooke - 15-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 05:36 PM)Splashdown Wrote: There's obviously something I'm not getting with this Norton situation.
Their result on Sunday was basically abysmal. Cam Donald is a superb rider, (lapped 130+), and a past winner, so unless he has dramatically slowed of late he should still be in the late 120 bracket. So to finish 18th at 120 average is miserably poor.
Hizzy managed 121.88 TWENTY THREE YEARS AGO!
This is a 1000cc Aprilia RSV4 isn't it? I mean the bike should EASILY be doing 128. What is going on?
It's nearly thirty years since I lapped at 117 on a bog standard Exup FZR1000 in the Proddie TT, (standard silencer, standard suspension), and that's pre Brandish, and Windy updates.
This bike should be fast (180+), handle (Spondon frame), fancy forks, fancy rear shock, adjustable offset. traction control, fancy brakes, quickshift, 6 gears. Just compare that to a standard FZR1000.
Or imagine chatting to Hizzy (hypothetically), 23 years after he lapped at 123. I guarantee that he would think the bike should AVERAGE 130!
Your thoughts.
Spot on, well said Nick, we all said this week that Cam has lost pace having been off a competitive ride for two years
Norton at the TT are not doing themselves any good, at the end of practice week, most teams were ready and just dialing in, meanwhile, Norton were using the angle grinder on frame and foot pegs! I kid you not.
This is a bike that has had 3 TT appearances, it should be well refined by now surely?
Look at Ryan Farquar's set up; he builds very special bikes and comes to the TT ready for action, and his is a relatively low budget effort.
I don't live too far from the factory, and the local rumour is that 961 road bikes re still problematic, but the low mileage of the typical collector buyer hide this luckily; they're just a modified Kenny Greer design.
The story (if true) of bikes being sent out knowingly with duff gearboxes, and then re collected to repair them is indicative of the nature of the business.
Most high profile ex employees, including all the previous riders, have to sign a gagging order as part of their contract; that tells you something! All allegedly of course...
The new Norton is a triumph of PR over reality in my opinion, I would love to see them do well, I just can't see that happening with the current set up.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - wsn03 - 16-06-2015
Everything I have researched makes neither of your posts a surprise. Brian Chrightons words are enlightening.
It's interesting hearing the opinions of those in the industry, but I can't publish them.
Not that my opinion counts, but I'll eat my crash helment (not my hat, my helmet) if they win a TT under the current set up within the current rules
(Small print, if this happens I will change my helmet to one made of chocolate.....I will also fly to the Isle of Man by hitching a ride on the back of one of the many pigs that will be hovering above me at the time)
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Dingocooke - 16-06-2015
(12-06-2015, 05:31 PM)c iom tt Wrote: Or it would be interesting to see how the Norton would go with one of the current top runners on it.
Watching Cam on it this year, Barregaroo, Milntown, Hillberry, Gorslea, Glen Helen, etc. I doubt it would be a great deal quicker with anyone else on it, and he turned 127 laps in 2013 on modern machinery. It's not realistically a reliable top ten bike, never will be in my opinion.
Interesting to see that Mick Grant is contracted to the Notrun team but goes elsewhere on TT race days...I think he wants to avoid the embarrassment; maybe Nick knows Mick well enough to enquire??
(are you sure about Mick and his attendance) ??????
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - John Foster - 16-06-2015
Have look at Cam's TT Video Diaries, particularly Number 5, via the Link below to have your eyes opened.
Also, Mick Grant has been at locations around the course checking on the Norton's set-up and handling in various situations, during racing.
Link
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - jolly7 - 16-06-2015
They also have the rather odd policy of not doing any other of the International Road races yet complain when they get to the tt that the short circuit testing cant replicate the tt circuit . Sure the tt circuit is unique but surely Dundrod is similar in many ways so why not take away what they have learnt , revamp things and try it out in August at the UGP .Also would they not have been better of taking in the NW200 where at least Cam could have been sharpened up on the fast roads.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - badlyoverdrawnboy - 16-06-2015
I don't think it qualifies for any other races it gets a 'bye' to race at the TT. Looking at Cams diary he looks like a man who's had enough, he's right that you get a feeling when things aren't right and it appears he was tempted to park it before the sprocket went wouldn't be surprised if thats the last time we see him on the Norton shed - and it wouldn't surprise me if he retired or at least stuck to classics which have a big scene down under. The competition at the sharp end is fierce and splodging around in the 20s and 30s is soul destroying for a former top runner, they're like a fish out of water, hutchy blatting past MD appeared to be the straw that broke the camels back and MD leaving McPint for dead last year broke his spirit. I think it highly unlikely that Cam has the hunger to get himself a top ride and stick six 130+mph laps in nest year - theres probably 10 others that can.
Given that Norton can't manage to sort out the commandos after several years of trying the chance of them building a race engine from scratch is nil, please nobody encourage them.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Alfie Noakes - 16-06-2015
It also needs a guy with a garden blower poked into the radiator on the grid, he's there right up to when the bike leaves the startline arch, no other teams are allowed anybody else into that area.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Rc588 - 16-06-2015
(04-06-2015, 11:15 AM)c iom tt Wrote: There are always two sides to every story. The issues with some customers not getting there bikes when promised or there deposits back in the early days are well documented, so there is no argument there.
However, the demand for there bikes are still that high, that not only can they still not keep up with demand, but when they come up for sale second hand, they are fetching a premium, so they must be doing something right.
On point to pick up on the Brian Crighton comments in a previous thread ref the rotor bearing not being designed for the flat out use that the TT throws at it, and the subsequent failure of the engines when Michael Dunlop tried to practice/ race with them.
Did no one tell the Abus team and Steve Hislop that they would not last?
The 1992 tt race engines had a direct oil feed spark eroded in to the eccentric shaft feeding the rotor bearings fead directly via a 4 outlet oil pump.
regards rc588
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Rc588 - 16-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 05:36 PM)Splashdown Wrote: There's obviously something I'm not getting with this Norton situation.
Their result on Sunday was basically abysmal. Cam Donald is a superb rider, (lapped 130+), and a past winner, so unless he has dramatically slowed of late he should still be in the late 120 bracket. So to finish 18th at 120 average is miserably poor.
Hizzy managed 121.88 TWENTY THREE YEARS AGO!
This is a 1000cc Aprilia RSV4 isn't it? I mean the bike should EASILY be doing 128. What is going on?
It's nearly thirty years since I lapped at 117 on a bog standard Exup FZR1000 in the Proddie TT, (standard silencer, standard suspension), and that's pre Brandish, and Windy updates.
This bike should be fast (180+), handle (Spondon frame), fancy forks, fancy rear shock, adjustable offset. traction control, fancy brakes, quickshift, 6 gears. Just compare that to a standard FZR1000.
Or imagine chatting to Hizzy (hypothetically), 23 years after he lapped at 123. I guarantee that he would think the bike should AVERAGE 130!
Your thoughts.
my thoughts exactly, though the frame has nothing to do with Stuart tiller the former owner of Spondon neither did the sg 1 on, the museums rotary will be out in the classic tt. my money is a old rotary will be the fastest Norton bike round the tt course come August.
With media interest waning I think it wont be long before this line of publicity is dropped.
Regards Rc588
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - NB12 - 16-06-2015
A superstock spec (FIM superstock as TT, Race Kit ECU) Aprillia RSV4 Factory with a on form Cam at the bars would (IMO) be able to lap at 130mph.
At Donnington (ironically) SBK where the BSB superstock 1000 had a round and the FIM European superstock 1000 also had a round, an Aprillia RSV4 won the European superstock race, lapping (to my surprise) faster than the BSB superstock (no kit ECUs) guys, Seeley etc on all the BMWs and ZX10Rs. Although that have never really been raced with much sucsess in the UK they are obviously a fairly handy tool. Think Dod Spence has also lapped at 118/119mph on an early (09?) stock one, and no disrespect to Dod but Cams a TT winner on a big bike.
It's a tin foil wrapped turkey, I'm pretty sure Cam was ready to quit the TT stuff,I can only assume Norton waved a big wedge of cash under his nose that would help secure his new family's future for him to change his mind. Of corse this is all speculation.
RE: Fully British-built TT bike for Norton by 2017 - Rc588 - 22-06-2015
hi all
I new I had a copy of the senior tt Norton race sheet for 1992, 193mph through the speed trap at sulby, roll-on the classic tt
Regards Rc588