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Totally Disgusted - George - 11-03-2011
You may remember the comments I made last years regarding fund raising for injured riders, My views have always been that a central fund should be set up to help all injured riders in time of need.
Reading todays Manx Paper front page is the story of a Local rider who was seriously injured in last tears MGP, Tim Vennables. Tim has had to go through a lot since the accident and at times its been touch and go with him but now he on his way to a good recovery if the funds can be found to cover the medical costs of the operations HE has to have ASAP, the family of Tim are going to have to find over £110000.00 if Tim is to make a near full recovery.
My point is why should riders or their families have to pay for any medical costs as a result of competing in a GOVERNMENT promoted sport which is free to watch but does generate a lot of money for the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man Government can always find the funds to send reps off Island to attract the riders to compete here, and cost is no object, but when a Rider is hurt the do very little.
The Isle of Man Government should take full responsibility of the welfare of the riders, if not then why let the riders risk their lives for nothing.
RE: Totally Disgusted - Lee - 12-03-2011
George,
First of all, I hope and wish for all the best for Terry, for any injured rider and their family's future. But If The Isle of Man Government had to take "full responsibility of the welfare of the riders", there would be no TT. In fact the government wouldn't even promote a garden party.
I agree that a central fund should be set up to help in some way towards all injured riders in time of need.
I suppose until then we all can just keep donating towards the existing charities what we can.
Lee.
RE: Totally Disgusted - George - 12-03-2011
The operations that Tim need have to be done within a short period of time if he is to recover, the longer he has to wait more damage will be done resulting in the situation that is not good. The operations and treatments have to be done by specialists and his own Hospital can not do. This should be a case of the IOM Government showing good will, provide a grant and loan towards the costs.
You say that if the Government was to pay for riders injuries there would be no TT, Lets put it this way if the IOM Government dont take care of injured riders from the TT the public will get fed up with all the fund raising and start the ban the TT again, which could result in no TT and a great financial loss to the IOM.
Question would visitors to the Islands races be prepared to pay a Levi on travel of say £5 per trip to be put in a fund to cover such events.
RE: Totally Disgusted - John Foster - 12-03-2011
I agree with a lot of what has been said here, but what part does insurance play in all this? I'm sure that the riders have to pay high insurance fees and, if ACU Events (or whoever) are not providing them with cover that will fully support them under circumstances such as Tim's, then this needs to be examined.
There are already questions being asked about support (or the lack of it) for injured marshals.
RE: Totally Disgusted - George - 12-03-2011
The Doctor had recommended that Tim be sent to a clinic in London, reports assessments were done by the Clinic but it seems the DHSS here wont act. To save the nerves in Tims arm an operation was needed within weeks otherwise the nerves would die resulting in the loss of feeling in his arms. I believe that the Islands DHSS would not act quickly enough on this so the family had to have the op done private at a cost of over £10000-00.
Now the IOM government actively promote the races and pay for reps to approach riders to come here and do their best, but when it all goes wrong they are slow in doing whats needed to get an injured rider back to his best.
A small Levi on the travel to the races, say £5-00 per trip would raise something like £250000-00 per year which would go a long way to provide the best or specialist treatments for the riders.
Also lets not forget the Racing on the IOM is free, it also generates a lot of new money for the Islands economy, so the Government here has to do something now.
Personally I think we all know that we can spend a £5-00 on a smelly old Burger and think nothing of it so lets get something done now.
RE: Totally Disgusted - cregnybaa - 12-03-2011
I would have thought the health service on the IOM would have a duty to look after their own to give them the best care available and to get them back to as normal as is possible they reputedly made 9 millon out of the TT last year, what is needed here is a drop in the ocean out of that.
RE: Totally Disgusted - Carole - 15-03-2011
(12-03-2011, 07:59 PM)cregnybaa Wrote: I would have thought the health service on the IOM would have a duty to look after their own to give them the best care available and to get them back to as normal as is possible they reputedly made 9 millon out of the TT last year, what is needed here is a drop in the ocean out of that.
I find it so difficult to understand the reasoning behind refusal of funds for nescessary treatment of young injured riders such as Tim, but we hear everyday of very expensive ops on those well into their eighties or nineties. Of course I am not suggesting for one minute that the Seniors should be refused those ops, but rather that those with their whole future ahead of them be afforded the same consideration, withough having to beg.
Tim is only 22, and deserves every bit of help, in a timely manner that he can get, without funding having to come into it- and he need it now.
Meantime his Family have the unenviable task of an uphill struggle to raise those funds, on top of an already very stressful and upsetting time. Lesser families would have given up by now, so I am in awe of them.
We have been so very lucky that Olie has received good care, and is well on his way to recovery, and are saddened that Tim has not been so lucky.
RE: Totally Disgusted - George - 15-03-2011
(15-03-2011, 03:20 PM)Carole Wrote:(12-03-2011, 07:59 PM)cregnybaa Wrote: I would have thought the health service on the IOM would have a duty to look after their own to give them the best care available and to get them back to as normal as is possible they reputedly made 9 millon out of the TT last year, what is needed here is a drop in the ocean out of that.
I find it so difficult to understand the reasoning behind refusal of funds for nescessary treatment of young injured riders such as Tim, but we hear everyday of very expensive ops on those well into their eighties or nineties. Of course I am not suggesting for one minute that the Seniors should be refused those ops, but rather that those with their whole future ahead of them be afforded the same consideration, withough having to beg.
Tim is only 22, and deserves every bit of help, in a timely manner that he can get, without funding having to come into it- and he need it now.
Meantime his Family have the unenviable task of an uphill struggle to raise those funds, on top of an already very stressful and upsetting time. Lesser families would have given up by now, so I am in awe of them.
We have been so very lucky that Olie has received good care, and is well on his way to recovery, and are saddened that Tim has not been so lucky.
Well said Carole, its only when it lands on your own door that you feel the pain. I was very surprised to read on another forum that a rider made the comment that spectators should not have to pay and that riders should take out maximum insurance to cover such events.
RE: Totally Disgusted - Tomcat - 24-03-2011
(15-03-2011, 04:27 PM)George Wrote: I was very surprised to read on another forum that a rider made the comment that spectators should not have to pay and that riders should take out maximum insurance to cover such events.
Until recently the potentially lapsed reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM would have forced all riders to do that anyway. Fortunately that has been reinstated, which is some consolation at least.
Riders from outside the UK are currently required to prove they have accidental treatment insurance in place before they can enter, which I believe followed James Cornell's accident with subsequent prolongued treatment and air ambulance back to the US. I understand such insurance is not entirely cheap.
However in my (admittedly biased) opinion IoMG should provide comprehensive free cover to riders for accidental damage, and injured riders should not have to pay thousands from their own pockets for treatment because the IoM Health Service can't provide it in time to prevent lasting damage. The races bring millions of pounds income to the Island. Most riders already pay thousands out of their own pockets to ride, surely it's only fair that those who pocket the proceeds should cover those who take the risks?
Incidentally, wasn't this the original purpose of (what used to be) the Joey Dunlop Injured Riders Fund? Except it has now been used to build holiday accommodation...
RE: Totally Disgusted - George - 28-03-2011
(24-03-2011, 02:48 PM)Tomcat Wrote:(15-03-2011, 04:27 PM)George Wrote: I was very surprised to read on another forum that a rider made the comment that spectators should not have to pay and that riders should take out maximum insurance to cover such events.
Until recently the potentially lapsed reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM would have forced all riders to do that anyway. Fortunately that has been reinstated, which is some consolation at least.
Riders from outside the UK are currently required to prove they have accidental treatment insurance in place before they can enter, which I believe followed James Cornell's accident with subsequent prolongued treatment and air ambulance back to the US. I understand such insurance is not entirely cheap.
However in my (admittedly biased) opinion IoMG should provide comprehensive free cover to riders for accidental damage, and injured riders should not have to pay thousands from their own pockets for treatment because the IoM Health Service can't provide it in time to prevent lasting damage. The races bring millions of pounds income to the Island. Most riders already pay thousands out of their own pockets to ride, surely it's only fair that those who pocket the proceeds should cover those who take the risks?
Incidentally, wasn't this the original purpose of (what used to be) the Joey Dunlop Injured Riders Fund? Except it has now been used to build holiday accommodation...
The Joey Dunlop injured riders fund was always going to be the provision of Disabled accommodation for not just Bike riders but any disabled people from a sporting background, although I have heard that they provide accommodation during the off peak season for other visitors.
RE: Totally Disgusted - Carole - 29-03-2011
(28-03-2011, 04:11 PM)George Wrote:(24-03-2011, 02:48 PM)Tomcat Wrote:(15-03-2011, 04:27 PM)George Wrote: I was very surprised to read on another forum that a rider made the comment that spectators should not have to pay and that riders should take out maximum insurance to cover such events.
Until recently the potentially lapsed reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM would have forced all riders to do that anyway. Fortunately that has been reinstated, which is some consolation at least.
Riders from outside the UK are currently required to prove they have accidental treatment insurance in place before they can enter, which I believe followed James Cornell's accident with subsequent prolongued treatment and air ambulance back to the US. I understand such insurance is not entirely cheap.
However in my (admittedly biased) opinion IoMG should provide comprehensive free cover to riders for accidental damage, and injured riders should not have to pay thousands from their own pockets for treatment because the IoM Health Service can't provide it in time to prevent lasting damage. The races bring millions of pounds income to the Island. Most riders already pay thousands out of their own pockets to ride, surely it's only fair that those who pocket the proceeds should cover those who take the risks?
Incidentally, wasn't this the original purpose of (what used to be) the Joey Dunlop Injured Riders Fund? Except it has now been used to build holiday accommodation...
The Joey Dunlop injured riders fund was always going to be the provision of Disabled accommodation for not just Bike riders but any disabled people from a sporting background, although I have heard that they provide accommodation during the off peak season for other visitors.
I am I have to confess now a little bit confused regarding the purpose of Joey Dunlop foundation disabled accommodation.
I was sure I was told, when asked to donate, that the funds were being raised to build suitable accommodation to help injured riders and other disabled sports persons, but now it seems it’s available for any one that would like to book. In addition, the charges for the accommodation seem to mirror other disabled holiday accommodation, and there doesn't seem to be any concessionary rates indicated for those that need it most- i.e. those with little or no funds.
I mistakenly assumed that the accommodation would be provided free of charge for recuperating injured/disabled sportspersons and riders. So is it now if they can't afford the fees, they will get no help at all- or have I missed something.
I am aware that there are big cost implications in subsidising accommodation, hence the need to make some charges to those that can pay, and continue the fundraising, but I do hope provision is also made to help those that really need it most- it will be really sad if that is not the case.
RE: Totally Disgusted - kevin quirk - 29-03-2011
(29-03-2011, 06:41 PM)Carole Wrote:Being a founder member of The Joey Dunlop Foundation and Chairman for the past 5 years , I have never been aware of a policy whereby accommodation would be provided free of charge to recuperating injured or disabled sports persons.We will look sympathetically at any requests for accommodating injured riders and in fact have asked The Hyperbaric Chamber to direct any injured sports persons our way.(28-03-2011, 04:11 PM)George Wrote:(24-03-2011, 02:48 PM)Tomcat Wrote:(15-03-2011, 04:27 PM)George Wrote: I was very surprised to read on another forum that a rider made the comment that spectators should not have to pay and that riders should take out maximum insurance to cover such events.
Until recently the potentially lapsed reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM would have forced all riders to do that anyway. Fortunately that has been reinstated, which is some consolation at least.
Riders from outside the UK are currently required to prove they have accidental treatment insurance in place before they can enter, which I believe followed James Cornell's accident with subsequent prolongued treatment and air ambulance back to the US. I understand such insurance is not entirely cheap.
However in my (admittedly biased) opinion IoMG should provide comprehensive free cover to riders for accidental damage, and injured riders should not have to pay thousands from their own pockets for treatment because the IoM Health Service can't provide it in time to prevent lasting damage. The races bring millions of pounds income to the Island. Most riders already pay thousands out of their own pockets to ride, surely it's only fair that those who pocket the proceeds should cover those who take the risks?
Incidentally, wasn't this the original purpose of (what used to be) the Joey Dunlop Injured Riders Fund? Except it has now been used to build holiday accommodation...
The Joey Dunlop injured riders fund was always going to be the provision of Disabled accommodation for not just Bike riders but any disabled people from a sporting background, although I have heard that they provide accommodation during the off peak season for other visitors.
I am I have to confess now a little bit confused regarding the purpose of Joey Dunlop foundation disabled accommodation.
I was sure I was told, when asked to donate, that the funds were being raised to build suitable accommodation to help injured riders and other disabled sports persons, but now it seems it’s available for any one that would like to book. In addition, the charges for the accommodation seem to mirror other disabled holiday accommodation, and there doesn't seem to be any concessionary rates indicated for those that need it most- i.e. those with little or no funds.
I mistakenly assumed that the accommodation would be provided free of charge for recuperating injured/disabled sportspersons and riders. So is it now if they can't afford the fees, they will get no help at all- or have I missed something.
I am aware that there are big cost implications in subsidising accommodation, hence the need to make some charges to those that can pay, and continue the fundraising, but I do hope provision is also made to help those that really need it most- it will be really sad if that is not the case.
Our tariffs are less than 50% of commercial rates and our top floor apartment if fully occupied only costs £83.00 per person per week.This covers electricity . gas , bed linen and fresh towels plus we made significant investments in hoists, evacuchairs,toilets , bedding and other aides.
Like all walks of life we are faced with increased insurance and fuel bills , my small committee have pledged to continue with our various fund raising events . JDF's committee members and our loyal band of helpers and supporters will be at various events both on and off the island starting next month and finishing in October.
If you have any questions regarding JDF then please contact me direct or speak to any of the committee members.
I regret that anyone has been misinformed , JDF will endeavour to assist whenever possible .
With limited affordable accessible facilities on the island , we have opened the house to the general public and are actively encouraging special need schools and similar organisations to stay at Braddan Bridge House.
After 18 months of hard work , or project manager has just about completed the snagging list , so please pop down to Braddan Bridge.
Kevin Quirk
RE: Totally Disgusted - Carole - 30-03-2011
Quote:Being a founder member of The Joey Dunlop Foundation and Chairman for the past 5 years , I have never been aware of a policy whereby accommodation would be provided free of charge to recuperating injured or disabled sports persons.We will look sympathetically at any requests for accommodating injured riders and in fact have asked The Hyperbaric Chamber to direct any injured sports persons our way.
Our tariffs are less than 50% of commercial rates and our top floor apartment if fully occupied only costs £83.00 per person per week.This covers electricity . gas , bed linen and fresh towels plus we made significant investments in hoists, evacuchairs,toilets , bedding and other aides.
Like all walks of life we are faced with increased insurance and fuel bills , my small committee have pledged to continue with our various fund raising events . JDF's committee members and our loyal band of helpers and supporters will be at various events both on and off the island starting next month and finishing in October.
If you have any questions regarding JDF then please contact me direct or speak to any of the committee members.
I regret that anyone has been misinformed , JDF will endeavour to assist whenever possible .
With limited affordable accessible facilities on the island , we have opened the house to the general public and are actively encouraging special need schools and similar organisations to stay at Braddan Bridge House.
After 18 months of hard work , or project manager has just about completed the snagging list , so please pop down to Braddan Bridge.
Kevin Quirk
Thanks for the reply Kevin, and your explaination of the way the JDF house is to work. Firstly, I apologise if I gave the impression I was criticising in any way your wonderful work and dedication in getting this up off the ground- a huge task. I was, I am sure early in the campaign to raise funds given the impression that it would likely be a free facility, but in truth I am guessing this was an assumption and not a fact. The figure you have quoted seems reasonable, I am guessing that some of the bedrooms have more than one bed. In cases of extreme hardship hopefully there will be funds from other sources and charities to help.
I would love at some time to have a look around- the pictures look wonderful, and in fact I marshalled at Braddan in 2009 for the Manx, and though what a great location it was.
best wishes
Carole
RE: Totally Disgusted - Tomcat - 01-04-2011
OK notwithstanding what may or may not be the original aims of the JDF (and as a charity it's maybe not fair to expect it to pick up all medical costs in any case), George's original point remains.
I wonder if anybody in IoMG is prepared to answer the point?
RE: Totally Disgusted - Gstarron - 03-04-2011
Hi All..!! This is a good topic to discuss for sure... as medical costs and insurance is a very HOT topic here in the states too... I firmly believe there is no "Utopia"... It seems to me, regardless of the country, those with the money get the best and fastest care... the rest of us try to do the best we can.. and this is where insurance comes in...
Costs.. now this is the meat of the subject... but getting medical coverage while traveling is NOT really expensive... more like a set of race tyres... but then all these costs add up..!
OK, I suspect that both the TT and MGP folks have already looked at getting a "Group" / Term insurance policy.. Such a policy may not be availble there.. I do not know. I suspect it would be somewhat cheaper if there was such a policy available there... Here in the states, any group can get a group rate... then offer the discount to the people in the group... in this case the riders... Seems like having additional coverage available at a lower cost should also benefit situations where a specialist needs to be brought in or the patient sent to the specialist... Yes that would potentially increase the cost for everyone, but I think the peace of mind alone would be worth it..!
Hope to see you all in August..!!!! Stay well... or get well in some cases...
Cheers..!!!
Ron
(15-03-2011, 03:20 PM)Carole Wrote:(12-03-2011, 07:59 PM)cregnybaa Wrote: I would have thought the health service on the IOM would have a duty to look after their own to give them the best care available and to get them back to as normal as is possible they reputedly made 9 millon out of the TT last year, what is needed here is a drop in the ocean out of that.
I find it so difficult to understand the reasoning behind refusal of funds for nescessary treatment of young injured riders such as Tim, but we hear everyday of very expensive ops on those well into their eighties or nineties. Of course I am not suggesting for one minute that the Seniors should be refused those ops, but rather that those with their whole future ahead of them be afforded the same consideration, withough having to beg.
Tim is only 22, and deserves every bit of help, in a timely manner that he can get, without funding having to come into it- and he need it now.
Meantime his Family have the unenviable task of an uphill struggle to raise those funds, on top of an already very stressful and upsetting time. Lesser families would have given up by now, so I am in awe of them.
We have been so very lucky that Olie has received good care, and is well on his way to recovery, and are saddened that Tim has not been so lucky.
RE: Totally Disgusted - George - 04-04-2011
It was said on a BBC news report tonight that the TT was to go Global, as it stands the TT brings in over £20million in new revenue to the Island, yet at the same time they the Manx Government cant find the funds to look after the very people that make it possible.
Any Manx MHK or Members of the Motor Sport Department of Tourism should be ashamed that they allow injured riders and their families to go begging for the funds to get these lads well.
Maybe the world should be told of the care the IOM Government give to injured riders at the same time they try to sell the event to the world.