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+--- Thread: Red flags (/showthread.php?tid=20012)
Red flags - billybookcase - 13-06-2015
"When I were a lad....", there were hardly any red flags, we cleared up the road with bikes flying by under waved yellows, no matter how bad the incident was.
Do the sector marshals now have the onus to call for a red flag or is it still the COTC who calls it based on reports?
How does it work nowadays?
RE: Red flags - Ken37.73 - 13-06-2015
The incident necessitated a fire engine.
RE: Red flags - SPJ - 13-06-2015
If there has been an increase in red flags (can't say I've noticed a huge difference over last few years) I wonder if the air ambulance plays a part in that? If a rider is critical and airlifting them directly to hospital gives a better chance of survival then it'd be hard to argue against that.
RE: Red flags - excollier - 13-06-2015
Amazing how quickly this incident was cleared up and a re-start set up. Contrast this with the NW200 which is becoming increasingly frustrating to attend with it's (mostly) unnecessary delays.
They could learn a thing or two from the TT organisers.
RE: Red flags - Electric_Monk - 13-06-2015
Marshals at the scene request a red flag if they think it's warranted, and describe the scene to race control. Race control or CoC make the decision based on the information given to them by the marshals.
RE: Red flags - Westers - 13-06-2015
I can't remember red flags being used until Guy crashed in 2010; ever since then they seem to have become more common place.
I will now sound old, however as per billybookcase, big smashes didn't get red flagged before. The tragic incident with Gus Scott, and the lady marshall, is a case in point; the race carried on, however the accident scene was unlikely to be too clever (I was on the island, but not at the scene, so I'm speculating).
I think the usage of the red flag, and the no racing if it's raining, is due to the new organisation who run the races. That's not a dig at the new guys (they're hardly new, but you know what I mean), as they've dragged the TT into the modern world, and made it stronger than ever. As a result things had to change, and that was a major revamp of safety and organisation - and fair play to them, they've done a brilliant job at overhauling the organisation, whilst making sure the essence of the races remains intact.
RE: Red flags - billybookcase - 13-06-2015
I suppose the big difference nowadays is the use of radios improving communication between incidents and the CoC. All we had was flags and the occasional telephone box.
RE: Red flags - Westers - 13-06-2015
Yes, very true Billy, and I think it sums up the difference between the TT of "yesteryear", and the modern event.
RE: Red flags - Electric_Monk - 13-06-2015
I've marshalled since 2010, and the difference when Gary Thompson became CoC is incredible. He has enormous respect for the marshals, makes quick decisions, and trusts us to make recommendations. I do not believe the job could be done better. As for the incident in the senior, there is no way racing could have continued through the scene.
RE: Red flags - Sam Pato - 14-06-2015
(13-06-2015, 10:18 PM)Westers Wrote: I can't remember red flags being used until Guy crashed in 2010; ever since then they seem to have become more common place.
I will now sound old, however as per billybookcase, big smashes didn't get red flagged before. The tragic incident with Gus Scott, and the lady marshall, is a case in point; the race carried on, however the accident scene was unlikely to be too clever (I was on the island, but not at the scene, so I'm speculating).
I think the usage of the red flag, and the no racing if it's raining, is due to the new organisation who run the races. That's not a dig at the new guys (they're hardly new, but you know what I mean), as they've dragged the TT into the modern world, and made it stronger than ever. As a result things had to change, and that was a major revamp of safety and organisation - and fair play to them, they've done a brilliant job at overhauling the organisation, whilst making sure the essence of the races remains intact.
They used it when Paul Orritt crashed at the bottom of Bray hill that time. The fact that half teh field were still on the start line may have influenced that decision. Other than that red flags for incidents were remarkably rare in the past. Then again - so was closing the mountain road due to RTA's.
As above - just an observation - no criticism intended.
Sam
RE: Red flags - Ricky - 14-06-2015
I think the Paul orrit red flag was the first red flag at the TT. They are gettin more common. I'm sure there were some horrendous accidents in the past that were not red flagged. It just wasn't the done thing back then, now it is. Prob part and parcel of the so it we live in these days.
RE: Red flags - roger9650 - 14-06-2015
The sometimes indifference towards waved yellows hasn't helped either
RE: Red flags - c iom tt - 14-06-2015
The COC is the only person that can call a red flag. It must be difficult for the flag marshal at the scene knowing it should be a red flag and waiting for instructions, but the current system is the best way to do it.
RE: Red flags - Electric_Monk - 14-06-2015
It works well, and the CoC is quick to make the call. The riders do slow down under waved yellows, so it's generally safe. The biggest frustration is that when there's an incident spectators often run into the road and start shouting at the marshals to wave a red flag! I know it's well intended, but it is very dangerous and distracting when we have other things to concentrate on.