+- TT Website Forum (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Isle of Man TT Website (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: TT Related Posts (Only) (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Changes Needed ! (/showthread.php?tid=2678)
Pages:
1
2
Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 20-05-2004
Isn't it about time something was done about qualifing times for events including the NW, TT etc. They need too be raised sooner rather than later, and stop dangerously slow riders from competing.
There are far too many of these rider's about on the international scene, literally just riding round, not racing ! The vast majority of them wouldn't finish in the top three at a decent club event, never mind an international one. The persistantly slow ones who turn out every year, want their licence's down grading to a restricted one.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 20-05-2004
Perhaps you should go and ride somewhere else if the TT isn't fast or safe enough for you, may I suggest MOTO GP OR WSB, but who would be the wobbler at the back then,
F*@king stupid comment....
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 20-05-2004
Don't recall mentioning MOTO GP ETC, talking about the roads. Safety does'nt matter to you then.
stuck record! *NM* - Anonymous - 20-05-2004
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 20-05-2004
Of course I believe in saftey, but raising the quallifing speeds is not going to do any thing, exept cause more problems with riders trying to ride above there limit,
The main problem is that the bloody bikes are too fast, and only a very select few can ride them to their limits, I have the greatest respect for any rider that can lap the mountain circuit at an average of over 100 mph, let alone 125+mph
No one should be denied the chance to race the TT, whatever level of rider he or she is, and as long as he or she makes the qualifing time, they should not be a burden to any one,
On the other side of the coin, what about the bullish way the top riders treat lesser riders in practice, pushing to the front, last out of the pits, first off the line, wouldent hapen to my rider, Pit stops are another thing.
Thing is, there are and were gentlemen racers, like Joey and DJ, who took every thing in their stride, and there are complainers......
Enough said....
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Garry, if you care to check your facts, I think you'll find that the qualifying times for this year's TT have been cut fairly drastically.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
On the qualification topic, I remember Milky Quail complaining at a chat show, two years ago in Douglas that slow riders on the TT course were a hazard and that qualifying times should be higher.
I appreciate it is a challenge to ride the mountain course, but surely that is the reason for the existence of MGP to cater for the slower riders. The organisers always appear to be looking for new riders to come forward for TT but I fully support that the way forward is via MGP, the vast majority of Irish riders came this route, those who didn't have normally 'cut their teeth' in Irish road races. If the organisers bring newcomers directly to TT they are left with the embarassment what to do if these riders do not reach qualifying times, and if they stick 100% to the rules they get criticism for discriminating against these riders.
With the same club running the TT as the MGP this task shouldn't be so onerous. I would support a rule that riders must qualify for TT through MGP.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Talking of 'the wobbler at the back', you may be interested to know that in his only TT race back in 1988, Mr Dickinson finished 60th and last in the Production C Race at an average speed of 86 mph, whilst the fast guys at the front were doing around 110mph. But to his credit, he practiced what he is now preaching and never came back. A wise decision I'd say !
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Big D, you are the only one who has made a sensible reply, as you made some good points. Experienced rider's like Milky comments need to be listened too, not ignored.
The last thing any of the above events need is another big handline, in the news. The governing body really needs to start looking at this license issue.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Now David, we are scraping the barrel trawling the archives to find a bad result for Garry. How you have the audacity to pick fault with someone who has achieved more in 1 year, than many riders will ever achieve if they carry on racing for the rest of their lives! I agree,it was a very wise decision not to return to the TT and to his credit yet again. It only took 1 race for him to make this choice. It's a great pity that others don't follow suit! Garry is passionate about his racing and safety is of the utmost importance for all riders. Slow riders can be a hazard at national and international level and should possibly consider sticking to what they are capable of speed wise, i.e club meetings.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
I've been reading this board for months, and finally read something which has made my blood boil sufficiently to pass comment.
Garry D. Who the hell do you think you are ?.
"Far too many riders just riding around, and not racing" I've never heard so much drivel. I would like to bet that EVERY competitor in the TT or MGP is riding at his or her limit, but due to differences in machinery, experiance, or ability some happen to go a lot faster than others. The guy at the back is trying his heart out with the tools he has available.
"The vast majority would'nt finish in the top three at a club race". possibly not, but they have finished in the top 50% on at least 10 occasions to get their national licence, and let me tell you to finish in the top 50% of any club race is no walk in the park. It is fast out there.
Lastly if you went to the FIM system of 110% qualification times, the grid would be depleated to a point races could not be run, or at least it would be very boring for spectators seeing 10 bikes come past every 18mins. Due to the complex nature of the course and all it demands, differences in abilty show up more than they would on a short circuit. That canadian guy (can't remember his name) who made the film about racing at the T.T for the first time, raced AMA. AMA !! that is a massivly high standard by anyones measure, but he failed to lap the course at 100 MPH. Lack of ability ?, definatly not. Machinery ? easily up to the job. So the missing ingredient has to be course knowledge/experiance.
If Garry would care to list his racing sucsesses, starting at club level ('cos that's easy) moving through road racing to the TT, with fastest lap please, I will bow to his experiance, apologise, and publically retract most of the above. If as I suspect he has never raced, he should try a club race (should win at a canter) and then lap at 100mph from a standing start on his first visit to the island.
It is dead easy to critisise something you have no comprehension of.
Feel better now.
Peter
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Apology.
Just found out Garry D. is an ex-british 125 champion. As I promised, public apology. Sorry.
Still stand by what I said though......
I'll just tuck into this humble pie now if you don't mind.........
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
I think most of you are missing Gary s point that if the riders at the back of the field are too slow and going to be a danger to the top guys they shouldnt be in the race no matter how hard they are trying! Try MGP!
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Mr Dickinson has raised an interesting topic.
Perhaps the answer lies in tightening up on the qualification for an international license,perhaps someone could tell me what it is nowadays.
The case of faster machines/riders has allways existed,after all its what racing is all about,but I guess its the sheer speed of todays machines which enhances the danger it presents.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 21-05-2004
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 22-05-2004
Hi Russ,
It was good to see you briefly at the North West last week. I was hoping you would reply to this thread, as I feel you may be a little more reasonable than perhaps Garry has been.
You are right when you say that a lot of the animosity contained in this thread goes back to a series of postings made on the RRR.com website recently. Garry made what I and several others considered to be derogatory and condescending remarks about a fellow competitor that were unfair and totally uncalled for. This competitor then went on to perform superbly at the North West 200, making his words look very silly indeed - but still he flatly refused to acknowledge this performance or even make any concession that he might have been proved wrong in any way.
Nobody minds criticism when it is constructive, but in my opinion failure to give any credit when it is so obviously due gives the original criticisms little credibility. I am well aware of the successes Garry has had in his career, and I think that it a terrible shame that someone of his experience who has so much to offer should choose to publicly belittle fellow competitors when he could instead be offering practical help and advice on how they could perhaps improve their performances.
I accept that my remarks about his one TT appearance might be viewed as a bit of a 'cheap shot' especially coming from someone who has never raced. I'm pretty sure it's the only time I've ever done something like that on this or any other site, but at the same time I would say that if you choose to publicly belittle people then you have to be prepared to take a little bit back yourself. People in glass houses, etc !
As it happens, I do agree up to a point with some of his views about 'slow' riders, especially in relation to the TT and MGP. I don't know how many hours I have spent over the past few months thinking about and writing about how the TT could be improved. One thing I am strongly in favour of would be more flexibility in the rules to allow riders who do the TT and are well off the pace to be able to drop down to the MGP. As it stands, once you have done a non-Production TT race that's it, you can't go back to the MGP. I think this should change, and now that we have the same organisation running both meetings I see no reason why this can't happen fairly soon. Then of course, there's the issue of competitors being able to race in the Production TT and MGP, but that's another matter that I think has already been covered enough!
I hope this goes some way to explaining some of the background to this thread, which will hopefully now be laid to rest. It would still be nice to hear some praise from Garry for the North West performance I was referring to, though....
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 22-05-2004
david, read the thread again on rrr.com, the one entitled "rob frost signs for cd racing". i think you'll find in the second to last posting garry says "Had some really good results at the NW on Sat, well deserved too both him and CD racing." that looks pretty much like a bit of praise to me going frosty's way. as for saying that he [rob]crashes far too often and garry couldn't see him doing much??? i'd hardly call it slagging frosty off. passing his opinion, yes. getting peeps giving their opinions and replying to his postings with positive [or as most of this thread, negative] thoughts and ideas, yes. after all, this is what a racing forum is supposed to be all about, discussing racing and all its many facets.
just because we don't agree with someone's opinion, doesn't mean we've all got to jump on them en masse. i remember you sticking up for eric after everybody was having a go at him for some of his postings. you were saying what a nice bloke he really was and if we met him-etc. well the same applies to garry, he's a good lad, good company when you're out with him and very, very passionate about his racing.
so before anybody else has a go, take a leaf out of david's book in his defence of eric and know the man before you try ripping him to bits. the postings by garry may be a wee bit contraversial [never could spell that damned word] and thought provoking, but hey, these are the things that keep me and you coming back time and again to sites like this one. i'm now off for a short lie down and dip my index finger in warm, salty water till it stops throbbing.
ade!
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 22-05-2004
Ade, it wasn't this I was referring to, it was the remarks concerning Anita Buxton on the thread (a long one) entitled 'TT entries - how many' last month sometime. I still consider these remarks to have been very unfair and uncalled for, and it would have been nice to have seen an acknowledgement of the fact that she subsequently did very well at the North West. Bob Grant, who is an excellent road racer, was just behind her for most of the 400 race and said she had ridden 'magnificently'. She also qualified on the front row of the second wave of the Production Race, and was going well in that race too until a slight problem forced her to pull in after 3 laps. Hardly the performances of somebody not safe enough to be out there, and it would have been nice to have seen a bit of due credit given when the opportunity was there to have done so ! But this opportunity was flatly refused, leaving a bit of a sour taste.
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 22-05-2004
Hi Ade
I'm glad you ended that last thread with the word water, I was wondering where you were going to shove that throbbing finger of yours ;-)
You are right about Garry, he is a good lad, as for good company when you're out with him I'm not so sure, he came out with us earlier in year in Grimsby for the 6th annual BAGS BALL, but had to be home before midnight in case he turned into a pumpkin!!
When it got to his round it would have been easier to find Lord Lucan!! ;-)(he is from Yorkshire)
I have said this before about postings and the resulting threads, but it can be VERY hard to put over a point in a way that can be understood by all, as once you've posted, you've posted, there is not the room for trying to explain in a different way, and also replies of course have to be aimed directly at the person posting, which then leads to people going on the offensive, unlike a debate in real life where as you simply look at the person and talk, does anyone understand what I'm trying to say, cos even I'm getting confused now ;-0
I'm pretty sure Garry did acknowledge Anitas NW result on rrr, I could be wrong, he certainly did to me on the phone.
David I totally agree with the point you bought up about moving back from the TT to the MGP, and as you say it should be a mere formality now that the MMCC are in control of both, but I do think riders SHOULD NOT be allowed to do both events in the same year as they are now. Can I ask what your views would be on my remarks about riders who do not reach a set speed after 3 years at MGP, I suggested 100mph for all classes and 95 for 125/400, given that TT and MGP riders are fairly close in times these days?
The last thing I would intend with this ruling woul;d be to make practice more dangerous but ultimately to make it safer, as the way I see it is that the really slow riders will not go any quicker if the qualifying was 10 mph slower or 10mph quicker, as the real reason they are going to slow is that they daren't go any quicker, fact, the people who can qualify will always qualify, and the looneys that are going to crash ( you can pick them out on the grid every year at MGP) will still crash, cos they are trying to beat the world on lap 1 of practice, would anyone agree? Also what do people think about the international licence rule I mentioned.
If you want to do this by pm on rrr feel free as I realise that not everyone likes to put their neck on the line with somewhat radical views as me ;-)
Cheers
Russ
Re: Changes Needed ! - Anonymous - 22-05-2004
sorry for that david, got hold of the wrong end of the stick - thought you were talking about garry's remarks about frosty. didn't even see the thread about anita - must have missed that one. let me know when you're in my part of the world and i'll buy you a shandy!
russ, didn't gaining an international licence used to be different than what it is today? i thought at one time to get this top licence you had to win so many national races - or did i dream it, and that's how it ought to be? this is a good topic that needs discussing and addressing, shall we start a new thread?
ade!