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NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - spannerman - 11-05-2023
Australian rider Brookes told the BBC that his team - which also includes top rider Peter Hickman - had withdrawn from the event.
On Thursday evening, the FHO Racing BMW team issued a statement to confirm its decision.
The statement read: "The FHO Racing BMW Motorrad team are withdrawing from the 2023 fonaCAB and Nicholl Oils North West 200 due to no confidence in the application of the Superstock technical regulations.
“The Superstock class technical regulations mandate the machines must fully comply with conditions regarding the wheels, where Superstock machines must remain with the originally homologated wheels from the manufacturer, which from BMW are carbon. end
You can not use carbon wheels at the TT so i wonder how they will come off with the regulations to change the rules to use alloy wheels in the superstock race.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - spannerman - 11-05-2023
(11-05-2023, 11:08 PM)spannerman Wrote: Australian rider Brookes told the BBC that his team - which also includes top rider Peter Hickman - had withdrawn from the event.
On Thursday evening, the FHO Racing BMW team issued a statement to confirm its decision.
The statement read: "The FHO Racing BMW Motorrad team are withdrawing from the 2023 fonaCAB and Nicholl Oils North West 200 due to no confidence in the application of the Superstock technical regulations.
“The Superstock class technical regulations mandate the machines must fully comply with conditions regarding the wheels, where Superstock machines must remain with the originally homologated wheels from the manufacturer, which from BMW are carbon.
You can not use carbon wheels at the TT so i wonder how they will come off with the regulations to change the rules to use alloy wheels in the superstock race.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - milestone 11 - 11-05-2023
There's a clause in the TT tech regs that allows for alloy replacements from the bike manufacturer. That clause does not exist in the NW regs, merely carbon wheels are not allowed. And wheels must be as manufacturer supplied. In effect, the '23 BMW is ineligible if the NW regs are taken as read
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - captainsparkledotcom - 12-05-2023
Organizers statement here -
https://www.northwest200.org/statement-from-the-organisers-of-the-fonacab-and-nicholl-oils-north-west-200-3/
Such a shame, when, just a few weeks ago, the event wasn't even going to happen.
Can't believe this wasn't sorted beforehand,
FHO reading & questioning the regs,
scrutineers pointing out the legality (or otherwise!) of carbon wheels at the time of scrutineering,
daftness of a rule that seems to say "those wheels won't do, but if you change them that won't do either"!!
Not good at all.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - captainsparkledotcom - 12-05-2023
& full FHO statement is here -
https://fhoracing.com/fho-racing-bmw-motorrad-withdraws-from-the-2023-north-west-200/?fbclid=IwAR08UyV0usdHXcuEf8NcfjzRKOeF05cy2et0K3ZYaOzvowBFNaBykOJZucs
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - Jeff Kirby - 12-05-2023
Superstock TT Technical Regulations 2023
29.13. Carbon Fibre / composite wheels are permitted only when fitted as original
equipment on the homologated machine and have been certified by the
manufacturer as “Fit for purpose” for racing use on the TT mountain course.
Optionally, these may be replaced by an alternative ALUMINIUM wheel from the
same manufacturer or an aftermarket racing wheel supplier. In any case they must
be of the same diameter and rim width as the Carbon Fibre / composite wheel they
replace and weight must be no lighter than the homologated composite wheels.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - c iom tt - 12-05-2023
Should have been brought to a halt at scrutineering. Total shambles.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - ian333 - 12-05-2023
In defense of the NW200 (promoter), the governing body through which all racing in Ireland is sanctioned (north and south) is the MCUI. As I best understand it, they are the official body that grants the track certificate and sets forth the rules and regulations - and as we are so acutely aware, puts in place the insurance coverage. My guess is unlike the IOM Govt and its ability to better control its own destiny with the ACU, the NW event has to fall in line with the MCUI’s overall road racing regulations. Obviously, the NW200 has a responsibility to bring clarity to these rules and regulations but I guess the devil is in the details. I remember many years ago the NW200 didn’t allow Ducati’s due to them being in excess of 750cc being the issue I think. This was an MCUI rule as I understand as clearly it was in the NW200’s best interests to allow Ducati bikes on the grid. The same issue happened again a couple of years ago with the Norton that McGuinness was wanting to ride being in excess of 1000cc.
Some people have pointed to scrutinering but the primary reason for scrutinerring is safety, not to 100% validate the compliance of a bike - that will always be the responsibility of the rider.
Per the NW200 statement, once the stewards of the meeting had made their decision, it is final. There is nothing Mervyn White and his team can do - no different than when a rider at the TT is thrown out due to a tech infringement found after the fact. Paul Phillips would have no role in attempting to reverse the situation.
Road racing in Northern Ireland continues to decline. There are many reasons for this but the MCUI and the organising clubs/promoters have played a role - especially the MCUI in my uneducated opinion. I am sure there are lots of well intentioned good individuals involved but seemingly as an organization, something is broken.
Very sad and does not bode well for the future. That SS race last night was arguably the best race I have ever witnessed in 45+ years of watching the NW. 6-7 riders going hammers and tongs inches apart for 6 laps of public roads is all that is great for this sport. 15 mins later this debacle happens.
There are no winners here and unfortunately the NW200 loses some credibility here. Teams spend a fortune these days and my fear is some will start to think twice of the value proposition and their participation
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - c iom tt - 12-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 02:45 PM)ian333 Wrote: Some people have pointed to scrutinering but the primary reason for scrutinerring is safety, not to 100% validate the compliance of a bike - that will always be the responsibility of the rider.
So if a bike is presented at scrutinering with a turbo on it, it would be passed?
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - captainsparkledotcom - 12-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 03:00 PM)c iom tt Wrote: So if a bike is presented at scrutinering with a turbo on it, it would be passed?
I was thinking about this, and can't come to a conclusion!!!
would there be any need for post race stripdowns?
Could anybody have an oversized bike?
illegal parts, internal or otherwise?
Some things are very obvious, others not so much.
I raced my Triumph Rocket a couple of times, hill climb-sprints, even had the Powerbike record at one place (ok, ok I was the only one!
)but was then told ACU rules say maximum 1500cc!
It was in the rules, I hadn't read them fully.
In answer to your question, I would think not, hope not anyway!
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - ian333 - 12-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 03:00 PM)c iom tt Wrote: So if a bike is presented at scrutinering with a turbo on it, it would be passed?
Not sure what answer you are looking for here. What always seems to be lost when situations like these arise is this - we are all in this together. We all want road racing to succeed and thrive. 99% of the people involved are doing because they love it and want to to continue. Be it riders, marshals, scrutineers, officials, fans, mechanics etc. I am not into conspiracy theories. Don’t think anyone got up yesterday morning and said right, let’s see how I can screw this event/team/rider.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - Owl Man - 12-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 04:27 PM)ian333 Wrote: Not sure what answer you are looking for here. What always seems to be lost when situations like these arise is this - we are all in this together. We all want road racing to succeed and thrive. 99% of the people involved are doing because they love it and want to to continue. Be it riders, marshals, scrutineers, officials, fans, mechanics etc. I am not into conspiracy theories. Don’t think anyone got up yesterday morning and said right, let’s see how I can screw this event/team/rider.
I think the main issue will be back to insurance. If god forbid the bikes had been involved in an incident and wheels found not to be within the rules and in particular not homologated to be used on that bike it could have been the end of NW and any Irish Roads. One assumes that other BMW's have factory approved replacements fitted.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - c iom tt - 12-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 04:27 PM)ian333 Wrote: Not sure what answer you are looking for here. What always seems to be lost when situations like these arise is this - we are all in this together. We all want road racing to succeed and thrive. 99% of the people involved are doing because they love it and want to to continue. Be it riders, marshals, scrutineers, officials, fans, mechanics etc. I am not into conspiracy theories. Don’t think anyone got up yesterday morning and said right, let’s see how I can screw this event/team/rider.
Because you stated.
Some people have pointed to scrutinering but the primary reason for scrutinerring is safety, not to 100% validate the compliance of a bike - that will always be the responsibility of the rider.
I think its reasonable for everyone to assume that scrutinising as well as checking the safety of the bike, but also to make sure there is nothing on it that should not be.
As for conspiracy theories, an lot of people will have attended to see Josh Brookes, letting him practice fulfills part of that without it all kicking off after the race. If the Carbon wheels are not safe to race, they are not safe to practice, which brings me right back to scrutineering
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - ian333 - 12-05-2023
No one said carbon wheels are unsafe. My (uneducated) guess would be a cost containment issue. Again, scrutineering of bikes as I understand is primarily a safety endeavor. Obviously, if they see something that they know doesn’t conform to the rules of that class, I presume they would bring attention to it. You could argue they should have noticed the wheels but I have zero value to add as to how different carbon versus alloy wheels look
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - civ - 13-05-2023
(12-05-2023, 08:00 PM)ian333 Wrote: No one said carbon wheels are unsafe. My (uneducated) guess would be a cost containment issue
Ultimately it shouldn't really matter either way. They weren't allowed in the rules for the class so they shouldn't have been used in the first place. The time to request an exception to be made was months ago, not on the grid!
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - milestone 11 - 14-05-2023
I believe the removal by the organisers of FHO from the grid for the Superstock was disgraceful. The action gave the event little credibility and damaged the credibility of the sport as a whole. However, I wonder which wheels FHO intended to use in the Superbike class.
There is no doubt that the Superstock regs are ambiguous at best, as in reality, the rules did not allow them to use any wheels at all. the rule covering Superstock are copied here.
Quote:10. Wheels:
● Wheels must remain as originally produced by the manufacturer at the time of
sale into the dealer/distributor network for the homologated machine.
● No Carbon fibre composite wheels are allowed, only aluminum alloys wheels
are permitted to be used.
Based upon this rule FHO were right to withdraw from the meeting only on the basis of the Superstock. If it were the intention to use the carbon wheels in the Superbike class, which I'm sure they were as they claimed to have no alloy wheels at all, they clearly would have been in breach of the rules because they are worded, right or not, very differently as can be seen below,
Quote:8. Wheels.
● Wheels may be replaced and associated part may be altered or replace from
those fitted to the homologated motorcycle.
● Aftermarket wheels must be made from aluminum alloy.
● No Carbon fibre composite wheels are allowed, only aluminum alloys wheels
are permitted to be used
It seems to me that possibly both FHO and BMW need to read the rules a little more carefully or was their total withdrawal merely a device to save face in the longer term? Regardless, this nonsensical rule only applies to the NW 200 and other Northern Irish road racing.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - Hammy - 14-05-2023
Can’t believe FHO could not have obtained forged wheels for the superbike even at short notice. Seems to me just a case of FHO throwing their toys out of the pram .
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - spannerman - 15-05-2023
Jeff Kirby
TT rule, 9.3. Carbon fibre or carbon composite wheels are not allowed, even if the manufacturer has equipped the homologated production model with this type of wheel.
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - ian333 - 15-05-2023
Wow. That changes the narrative somewhat
RE: NW200 Top Team and riders withdrawn - Hammy - 15-05-2023
Thought this was the TT rule for Superstock.
“ 29.11. Wheels from a previous model year and from the same motorcycle manufacturer may be used providing no other modifications have to be made in order to facilitate their use.
29.12. Alternative wheels must be of the same diameter, rim width and no lighter than those fitted to the homologated motorcycle.
29.13. Carbon Fibre / composite wheels are permitted only when fitted as original equipment on the homologated machine and have been certified by the manufacturer as “Fit for purpose” for racing use on the TT mountain course. Optionally, these may be replaced by an alternative ALUMINIUM wheel from the same manufacturer or an aftermarket racing wheel supplier. In any case they must be of the same diameter and rim width as the Carbon Fibre / composite wheel they replace and weight must be no lighter than the homologated composite wheels.“