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+--- Thread: Can anyone help please (/showthread.php?tid=4593)
Can anyone help please - ian huntly - 20-07-2006
Nigel Rollason drove the Barton Phoenix engined outfit to win the 1986 Sidecar (B)..
Can anyone put me right as to which engine the Phoenix was based thereupon ??
This is needing absolute accuracy so the reply might be instrumental in yours truly winning a bet !!!
Barton Pheonix - irishago - 20-07-2006
Hi Ian , I believe the Barton Phoenix was based on the Suzuki RG Square Four engine hope this helps it was used in the Movie Silver Dream Racer too. cheers Irish Ago.... 8)
- charlie hulse - 21-07-2006
Ian, there were two Barton race engines developed by Barton Engineering
There was a 500cc three cylinder which was basically a 380 Suzuki bottom half with heads and barrels designed by Barry Hart grafted on.
There was also the Pheonix 500cc square four that had various developments. I think part of Barton's problems were because no two engines were ever exactly the same. It was this motor that Nigel Rollason used most. He may possibly have used the triple as well, but i'm not sure.
The engine was designed and built by Barry H and Graham Dyson.
The original 4 cylinder development was a stepped cylinder square four which Suzuki brought out a year or so later :? Barton Engineering sued for breach of copyright but it was dragged out by "the big" company.
They, eventually offered to settle "out of court" Most of the money went on legal fees and then Barton Engineering relocated from Liverpool to Caernarvon. The motorcycle engineering side of the business was bought by Armstrongs, much of the new design racing engines and drawing etc. were purchased by Eric Buell (Buell HD now) in America and the rest of the race shop sold to "interested parties"
I have one of the original "works" solo rolling chassis built by Spondon Engineering, one of very few solos built with the four cylinder motor. And as far as I know there is only one complete solo bike in existence, which I believe is owned by John Weedon.
The solo guises, both three and four cylinder models were raced under the "Sparton" name.... Spondon and Barton
Barry Hart still has a workshop in Bolton.
Threads.... - MV - 21-07-2006
Isnt it funny how the motor cycle racing fans brain works?!
I saw the name Nigel Rollason and immediately remembered his solo racing exploits. Particularly with the BSDA B50. One of the last all rounders?
The next thread that opened up was about other small company special, based on Suzuki engines.
The one that popped up first was Hi-Tac. Ridden at one time by the late Charlie Sanby. Hi-Tac was part owned by another great name from the past. Who can forget Peter Inchley.
I had a real coincidence happen at work.
Our receptionist said one day "I believe you are a bike racing fan?"
I owned up.
To which she replied that her partner was none other than Peter Inchley, and I have I heard of him?!
Unfortunately, not long after, Peter died.
But, this thtread stuff just goes to show how much of my life I have "wasted!"
MV
Thanks - ian huntly - 21-07-2006
Thanks Charlie for the info and thanks MV for your contribution.
The reason I asked for this particular info was because someone said that the Barton Phoenix was a triple and was the engine "used" by David Essex in Silver Dream Racer...
I felt it was the four cylinder Suzuki based version, which also went on to TT glory with Nigel at the helm.
Is that right Charlie ??
Ducati version - ian huntly - 21-07-2006
Seen the Ducati version ??
http://www.ducati.com/racing/home_news_popup_racing.jhtml?newsId=4187
Nigel - ian huntly - 21-07-2006
MV...SEE
http://www.b50.org/mead.htm
Interesting !!!
- sticky - 21-07-2006
Ian, to back up Charlie's post I'm certain it was the square four and not the triple. As I remember, it was a 750 motor and the triple was never made in that capacity.
On the subject of Nigel Rollason, was it not him that was given a Morini prepared by Devimead to ride in the F3 TT in the late 70s? It dropped it's breakfast all over the Mountain Mile in practice and as I'd just bought a 350 Sport, I got a lot of ribbing about that!
- charlie hulse - 21-07-2006
The Silver Dream Racer was probably the 750 motor not the 500; I had actually forgotten about that. Thanks for the memory jolt 'sticky'.
I was at the British Grand Prix where they filmed the "race" footage. With many riders wearing the helmets and leathers of well known riders.
If I remember rightly Roger Marshall rode a Pheonix in the 500cc Grand Prix that year, but I think he 'retired' before the end of the race. It was "rumoured" that the bike was actually a 750 :roll: but they had to make it look competetive.
- MV - 21-07-2006
Thanks for that link Ian.
I had been looking at it not an hour before!
They were interesting beats and Nigel rode them well.
So, whatevr happened to Nigel?
My memory isnt good on that.
MV
- MV - 21-07-2006
Er, sorry, senior moment?
If I had read more on that website, Ian , I would have SEEN more about Nigel.
Sorry!
MV
Thanks Orl of You - ian huntly - 21-07-2006
Hey, isn't this forum useful !!
Even Ago has come on, thanks, Kevin, hope you are well !
I remember in the days of CB radios, Nigel had one rigged up in his van in the paddock, but I forget his "Handle".
Mine was both "BROWN ALE" (being a Geordie) and "THREE LEGS" (fancy, no one else had used this name !)which had many a female breaker swoon at hearing the name over the airwaves...
When I blabbed without thinking and told them it was to do with my association with t'Isle o Man I felt in retrospect that I should have let them think three legs and NOT explain the Manx connection !!
- Bill Snelling - 22-07-2006
With regard to the Morini grenading on the Mountain, I reckon the rider was probably Dave Mason.
film - ian huntly - 23-07-2006
We were at Donington when they filmed some of Silver Dream Racer !!
It was when David Essex was riding that badly painted yellow RG wreck thing that gave up the ghost with far more "film smokeand sparks" than was half-a** sensible even for a two-stroke.
It was before he inherited the SDR "with more power than most people could control"----------LOLHAH !!!
We were standing on the last bend before the finishing straight and this open back car with cameramen in the boot kept coming past leading a field of weird bikes of all capacities, scripted to chop and change positions, again using a lot of "artistic licence".
On the beginning of the video we can just see ourselved waving frantically for no other reason than the public address system told us to do so !!!
Finally, what actually happened to the SDR rolling chassis and fairings ??