Are we sure we want another circuit? - Printable Version +- TT Website Forum (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums) +-- Forum: Isle of Man TT Website (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: TT Related Posts (Only) (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: Are we sure we want another circuit? (/showthread.php?tid=6148)

Are we sure we want another circuit? - Splashdown - 01-02-2008 I think most of the regulars are aware of my disdain for running a "TT" on the Billown course. I think it IS a good idea to re-introduce the 250's and 125's, but I object to the Billown races being given TT status. Anyway here is a precis of the editorial from "The MotorCycle" (The Blue Un') dated 14th June 1956. The time has come to discuss racing on the Clypse Course. When the innovation of using an alternative circuit was seriously considered in 1954, the primary object was to re-introduce the Sidecar TT, bearing in mind the small entry would be "lost" on the Mountain Circuit. In that year also the Clypse circuit was used for the 125cc race, an innovation in TT History. The Sidecar race proved a great success, and the 125cc Race delighted the spectators if only because such small capacity racing machines were unfamiliar. In 1955 both 250cc and 125cc races were run as well as the Sidecar Race. On that occasion opinion was less enthusiastic. The racing was of a high standard but the novelty of the previous year was absent. Inevitably,too, judgement on the day's sport was influenced by comparison with the glamour surrounding the Senior and Junior TT's on the Mountain course. Posibly the criticism was harsh and overstated. But the fact is that, even allowing for the effect of the unkind weather, the events on Wednesday of last week failed to draw the crowds and aroused little interest among those who did attend....... For this reason, it is essential that thought is given to the programme without delay in readiness for next year's jubilee meeting. So there. The journalists of the time make frequent reference to everyone's dislike of the Clypse Circuit, and as you probably know, it was dropped from the TT programme after 1959. Nobody has managed to convince me that holding up a TT Trophy at the Southern will REALLY feel like a TT win. It is, in my opinion, the true beginning of the "dumbing down" of the TT, in readiness for the day when the silent majority on the Island have their way and have done with the Mountain course. Can we possibly learn a little from the history of the event? - Don Simons - 01-02-2008 Of course everyone knows the racing at Billown is great, the atmosphere is excellent and the organisation is flawless, but nobody kids themselves that any race there is a "TT". My dilemma at the moment is trying to perceive through the fog of circumlocution and spin, if this is a genuine effort to provide racing for the 125 and 250 bikes, or is it a cynical attempt to silence the sizeable and vocal group who are calling for a return of variety to the TT fortnight. Everyone gets things wrong from time to time and we have to be big enough to admit it and come up with better solutions. For example the DTL made a bad decision to split up the entertainment areas on the Prom last year, now they have acknowledged it was a failure and returned to the previous workable arrangement. That is admirable. The pseudo TTs have never been a success, this is not reactionism but a strongly felt view that if you trivialise a product, a service or an event it will decline thereafter. Does anyone remember the Riley Mini, the Wolseley Mini or the Vanden Plas Mini? This sad missuse of a badge lasted only 9 years in Mk l, MK ll and MK lll versions selling a staggering total of 28,455. Please don't mistreat the TT name in similar fashion. - David Griffiths - 01-02-2008 Interesting comparison with the Clypse races of the 1950s, which was a very similar situation. I must admit I didn't realise that there had been any adverse reaction to the races on the Clypse Course at the time - you learn something every day! Reading old books about the TT and watching the videos from that era tend to give a nostalgic, almost romantic sort of feeling about racing on the Clypse Course. A relic from a byegone era! I vividly remember Nick having an on-air argument with Geoff Cannell back in the early 1990s, after Geoff had referred to somebody's win in the pre-TT classic races at Billown as being a 'TT win'. Nick put him right about that in no uncertain terms! Do you remember that, Nick? my course - ian huntly - 01-02-2008 Please Nick, look at the 30 year old suggestion for the "Southern Circuit" on this site I would like your comments - Splashdown - 01-02-2008 Yes David I do remember having a "go" at poor old Geoff.I was never afraid to air my views on Manx radio, and I'm not afraid to air them now! If it is something I passionately believe in I will always say it. At the time I had overheard Geoff on the radio congratulating a rider (maybe Dave Pither), and Geoff saying , "well what do you think to being a TT Winner, because that's what it is, it's a TT win?". David's reply went something like, " er, well, it's obviously not a TT win, but it's always good to win whatever the race". I was just making use of the air time to have a go at the organisers who for some reason that year had decided to call the classic races on the Billown, "TT Races". They didn't repeat it the following year.As I said, do we learn nothing from history? I thought Don's point about "trivialising the product/event", was absolutely spot on. Actually I'm amazed how few of our crew have responded. Here's me feeling quite passionate about the subject, and only a few seem bothered. Is it me? Or have the rest of us fallen in line and accepted the new arrangment? Oh, and Ian, I don't know which link you refer to. Could you enlighten me please? - alf885 - 01-02-2008 Here you go Nick http://www.ttwebsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 alf to nick - ian huntly - 02-02-2008 This one Nick !! http://www.bbhmg.com/sckre.htm - Tom Loughridge - 02-02-2008 I did try a couple of days ago to beat Nick on this one because I knew he would be bang at it but it was quite a lengthy post and I am slow with my eyesight and when I came to send I had been logged off and the post was lost Why does it do that Helen?, it has happened before a lot of times, it never did it when we were doing the long posts on the ACU licence fiasco. I once finished third at the Southern I00 I think I would hve kept my trap shut about finishing third in a TT for fear of ridicule if it had been promoted as that. Me Iloved the Southern the circuit the people who ran it and the great guys that did it, one not to miss. Dave Pither was right Billown ain't the TT an never will be. - oggy - 02-02-2008 The races at Billown have been run for a few years now, do the TT organisers think we are going to view them as a genuine TT race just because they say they are this year. I can never take these races seriously as qualifying as having full TT status and I will be on my way home before they begin, for me the TT finishes Friday afternoon after the senior. All that said I hope the Billown races go well and apart from the time and expense of staying on I would like to see them on there own merit but included with the TT no. - Barry Wood - 03-02-2008 Sorry Nick, although I try to keep up to date on the postings on this, and other boards, I work all week for long hours and don't usually get the chance to catch up with things until I get a day off on a Sunday. The Clypse was before my time, being last used in 1959, although the circuit ran up Watterson Lane, just a few yards from my home. My mother remembers it well, as do many people here on the Island. As you say, it never really caught on, hence the short life span of the circuit. Only thing I can say is that I would have loved the chance to race on it myself, as I'm sure most true road racers would do, but as a result of many changes in Onchan Village and developments in the fields on Watterson Lane, this will never happen, and the Clypse course is just a memory to those who were able to remember it. I fully agree with Nick that the 125/250 races taking place on the Billown circuit should NEVER be considered TT races. The Steam Packet meeting on the Saturday at the end of TT week has been a great success since it was introduced in 1991, although it's fair to say the fields were never as large as those for the Southern 100 proper, but after two hard weeks of practice and race at the TT, that's hardly surprising. Now it appears that the 400cc class doesn't get a ride at all, and the 125 and 250 become TT races! I'm sure that the meeting will be very successful and the crowds will flock down to watch, myself included, and I hope sincerely that it goes off safely for all concerned. But TT? No, that finished the previous day. I could write loads more on this topic, but I will suffice by pledging my agreement with Nick's posting. With regards to your last paragraph as to the future, I really don't know. Pardon me if I don't share the rosy optimism of some I could mention. Things have changed dramatically in the last few years regarding the TT, and although I agree changes have to take place, the current TT format and atmosphere is something which I find quite alien to me, and is far removed from that which I have grown up with and been involved with in one guise or another all my life. I shudder to think what the situation could be in , say, ten years time. I cannot imagine June without the TT, it's all I've ever known. I consider myself so fortunate to have witnessed the Golden Age of road racing on the TT course in the late 60's / early to mid-70's, and I have so many memories and so much knowledge of those days.