few simple answers imho:
[1] road tyres for a road circuit.
[2] race on if visibility is ok all round.
[3] if the prima donnas don't want to race in the rain. let the boys with the bigger gonads entertain us - and make a few extra quid - something the lower order racers need.
[4] no race, then they refund their start money.

not the tt, but at the ugp a couple of years ago a well known tt winner went out in all his races and miraculously developed an electrical problem in all 4 of his bikes - what are the odds against that occurring? it just happened to be on/off rain. i pay a lot of money to watch these guys [and girls] race, i don't pay to see them pull in after one lap with 'electrical problems'.
i'm not advocating racing in clearly dangerous conditions like standing water, fog, oily roads etc, but since the start of racing men and women have raced in the rain. i love the good weather as much as the rest, but these are supposed to be ROAD RACES, it rains on the odd occasion on the roads.
what next? a purpose built indoor road race track? this is the uk, not daytona - or should that be gb, not daytona? never could remember.
ade!

Hence my post ..

Total respect For Michael Dunlop for his win today.

Equal respect for William Dunlop for pulling in and when interviewd said it wasnt for him today in those conditions.

Spoken from the heart, no lies, just being honest with the fans.

We may or may not pay to watch these lads entertain us but i would hate to think that they may pay the ultimate price just beacause they felt they were obliged to race.

Think some of the replys are a bit harsh , all of these guys & gals have big test tickles full stop , i know they raced in wet up until recently ,times change , i also respect 100% any rider who decides not to race in wet am sure i would not like it , dont like riding the roads in the wet never mind racing .
So what if some of the top riders dont want to race in the rain thats there choice & does not make them a lesser rider in my view , Anstey loves the wet as does Rutter but as we all ,know Hizzy hated it & he is still as far as i am concerned the best rider i have ever witnessed here on the TT course , we would all be saddened & shocked if someone was badly hurt riding in wet conditions remember Kenny Blake , Klaus Klien etc . Cheers Shaun , footnote only my opinion & total rspect to those who do it in the wet .

klaus klein's accident at dundrod wasn't in the wet shaun, it was an absolute monsoon. that meeting really should have been called off.
so, what do we do? do we look back through the records and see how many riders lost their lives racing in the dry? you'll find it's a hell of a big ratio. so what now? stop them racing in the dry because they overtry? restrict them to 90cc plags? put a throttle stop on at half throttle? send a bunch of mods round first on their hairdryers?
whatever happened to 'it's the same for everybody', which used to be the lower position riders fave saying? as anybody who knows me will tell you, i have the utmost repect for ALL road racers, from the first man to the last. total, unconditional respect. i would also like the racing to be safe and fast. but what do you do? where do you draw the line? if it rains, call the racing off? what happens if it rains every day during race week at the tt? it could easily happen. so what do you do then? give everybody their travel money back to save for next year? take the start money back off the 'superstars'? the flag marshals [bless them all] are there with lack of adhesion flags. racers know what this flag means and know damned well you don't go through that section on dry tyres at full chat, you back off, the same as you're supposed to do when there's a yellow flag waved
you can agree with me, you can disagree. personally i don't give a fig, these are my thoughts, opinions, ideas, call them what you want. and that, after all is what these forums are for? thanks for reading, and i'll now let you get back to your tea and scones
ade!

Yes interesting thread this is, i`m cool with everyones opinions, my point being the honesty that william dunlop spoke.

Shaun and i are of the same thinking.

Hizzy was my ultimate hero, always was always will be.
He spoke it like it was, caused controversy on the short circuits at times because of this, but that was the way he felt and i always respected him even more for being outspoken rather than perhaps racing and "retiring" as i know another TT racer was asked too in years gon by.

Cheese on toast for mee Ade rather than tea n scones ;-)

Stella x

Thanks Ade , i know it is very difficult , dont even know the answer really , you are of course correct what if it rained all week which it did in 98 i think really hard where to draw the line here .
we are all in agrreance that riders safety is paramount , but i dont know hard subject this one , in an ideal world we would not need to worry .
I admire & respect any rider who can do it in the wet , but have a sense of dread when it is wet .
You are correct with the Klaus Klien incident it was horrible & that race should never have been started .
Guess we will have to agree to diasagree or disagree to agree , think we both think the same .
any way no tea & scones cider lager & chinese for me .
Cheers Shaun

Slightly off topic but been closely following Ben Wylie and his blog updates, worth a look from the view of a TT newcomer

http://www.benwylie.com/News3.html

Get urself up there for a tee shirt !

I sat in the paddock waiting for the track to dry so that the Superstar solo riders could go out.
Why not send out the sidecars to dry out the track that will be the only way that we will get out before the solos in practice or racing.

Just seeing the post for first time. I have followed road racing for 30+ years. Not once have I felt compelled to call into question the bravado or integrity of a rider who chooses to be a road racer. They are all my heroes!

Don, With regard to your question on stats regarding offs in the wet or dry, you could possibly find these in the annual newsletter produced by Doc Stevens for M.O.M.M.O.P.

willyc Wrote:Don, With regard to your question on stats regarding offs in the wet or dry, you could possibly find these in the annual newsletter produced by Doc Stevens for M.O.M.M.O.P.

At the risk of flogging a very old and very dead horse I raised a similar question when the infamous TT Course Licence was introduced after the shocking 2005 season. The licence supposedly addressed some 'experience' requirement as an answer to the fatalities of the year, trouble is if you look at the circumstances of the events only one (if that) could be attributed to lack of ability - and even that rider had qualified for the race on speed and number of laps.

For a realistic analysis of the dangers of the course every 'off' needs to be taken into account, since the effects of a spill are so uncontrollable - any could be a 'fatal'. Then you need to identify the primary causes of the incident and only when you have enough evidence gathered to know what they are, you can address them. Knee-jerk reactions or introducing measures that "seem like a good idea" without being based on hard facts are invariably no more than expensive, bureaucratic and most importantly ineffective gestures. When the course licence was introduced in just such a way the ACU were unwilling (or more likely unable) to provide any basis for their decision.

In the same way we should be a bit wary of judging wet races as inherently more dangerous than dry ones. They may even prove to be safer as riders instinctively allow larger margins of safety. Any crashes that do happen may happen at lower speeds with less severe consequences.

Flawed analysis makes for bad decisions.

Tomcat - I am enjoying reading your comments - unlike some, they look well thought out and not just a knee-jerk reaction!

TomCat totally agree, every accident should be looked at, but they should also be looked at as individual cases. I think it could be very hard to define each accident, and place it in a box. BUt I totally agree that they should be studied to see if improvemnets in safety or working practices of marshals and officials. I can not see a valid reason for not doing so. But this doesn't deflect from the reasons I mentioned about the course licence, or for the reason for rejecting the course licence totally.

At the end of the day its only the riders that really know if its safe to race and if conditions are not good there is more chance of the faster riders catching up on slower riders that may take a different line as a precaution.
I must agree that the safety measures being put in place these days are good, you only have to take a look at the reduction in fatalities to see this. But you will always have the unexpected, as seen on TV this week, rabbits and hares on the track, and the rumours have it that it may have been a hare that caused the serious crash in sidecar 2 race.

Perusing the Billown report, it seems a good job that there wasn't any rain on the road, or the results (and the starting line-up for that matter!) would have been very different!

Edit: on second thoughts, given my opinion of that circuit and the massed starts on it, not riding in the rain would be the sensible option - there are other ways to die...

Just made me think; why did roadracing motorcycles have mudguards?


I love this picture.