As many of you know that of Alec Bennett with the Sunbeam "Long stroke" at the 1922 Senior TT was the last win for a side-valve machine at the isle of Man TT races. There is a shot that portraits Bennett and his Sunbeam at pag. 34 of "Isle of Man TT - An illustrated History 1907-1980" by M. Freundenberg. The caption is a bit ambiguous but seems to refer the shot to the 1922 Senior TT. Race number is 16.

But there is another shot on page 22 of the book "TT races - Diamond Jubilee 1907-1967" edited by Peter Arnold and published by the BP-Shell. According to the caption the shot portraits "Alec Bennett [/i](Sunbeam), winner of the Senior". The race number of the racing machine portrayed in the shot is 44.

So the question is: Bennett's 1992 Senior race number was 16 or 44? Is the shot with the no.16 taken from the 1921 Senior TT?

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"Is the shot with the no.16 taken from the 1921 Senior TT?"

It seems it can not be as there is a Keig shot on pag. 76 of the book "TT heroes" by Mike Savage whose original white caption says: 'A. Bennett "Sunbeam" - Senior TT race 1921', and the portrayed race number is 9.

Hi Marco

Alec Bennett in 1921 rode No 9, and in 1922 rode No 44



ps I'll E-mail you again shortly

The photo on page 34 of Matthew's book is not one I have here within the Keig Collection negatives. The background does not seem right - any other ideas Larry?

Bill and Larry. Is it possibile that the shot with the racing no. 16 published on Freundenberg's book was taken in 1921?
In fact if you look at the 1921 Keig shot (that published on Savage's book) you find that there are many particulars that the portrayed motorcycles have in common. For example the tools bag and some cables on the engine - all things that on the motorcycle portrayed in the 1922 shot published on the BP-Shell book are different.

Of course another logical possibility is that the shot published on Freundenberg's book was not taken on the isle of Man.

P.S.
Larry, many thanks for your answer.

(04-08-2009, 11:18 PM)Bill Snelling Wrote: The photo on page 34 of Matthew's book is not one I have here within the Keig Collection negatives. The background does not seem right - any other ideas Larry?

Bill - let me say first of all that having found several inaccuracies in Freudenberg's book, I tend not to place too much reliance on his captions!

Having said that, my impression of the photo on page 34 always was that "That is not the TT.The paling fencing has a look of the French GP about it"

To cut a long story short, reference to "The Illustrated History of Sunbeam Bicycles and Motorcycles" by Bob Cordon Champ, who is the recognised Sunbeam expert, reveals that it was taken at the 1921 French GP which Bennett won riding the new Longstroke 500 sidevalver.

Champ uses, on his page 28, exactly the same photo which, however, includes two gentlemen of Continental appearance leaning on the fence.

These two have been air-brushed out of Freudenberg's published photo, and this I think supports my lack of faith in him.

Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see

Regards to Pat and Brieu

how nice to see mention of the wonderful side valve sunbeams.there cannot be many reading this who have ridden or even seen one.but i started racing on a 1928 longstroke in 1953 at silverstone saturday.it was an amazing bike but i would have preferred a model 90.but that was out of reach.coming back from a rally in reading,and going quite fast a model 90 caught me up had a word and then said i must go and disappeared in the distance.now where is r cordon champs great book,i must read it again.

(05-08-2009, 11:14 PM)ancient Wrote: how nice to see mention of the wonderful side valve sunbeams.there cannot be many reading this who have ridden or even seen one.but i started racing on a 1928 longstroke in 1953 at silverstone saturday.it was an amazing bike but i would have preferred a model 90.but that was out of reach.coming back from a rally in reading,and going quite fast a model 90 caught me up had a word and then said i must go and disappeared in the distance.now where is r cordon champs great book,i must read it again.

The 20's ended in the 50's. The 'longstroke' was a very longeve bike. I do not have the Sunbeam "bible" by Champ, but on the book "The complete illustrated encyclopedia of the world's motorcycles" written by Erwin Tragatsch I read that 'in 1925 there were a few 498cc ohc racing models for the works rider only'. Was the Sunbeam used by the great Charles Dodson for winning 1928 and 1929 Senior TT races a "simple" 493cc ohv Model TT 90?

yes charlie rode a model 90.the camshaft was not a success.may have been if they had persevered with it but they gave up on it.according to champ 2 exist one in the haynes museum. try and find a copy of the champ book for the best pictures you will ever see of sunbeams.

(06-08-2009, 05:39 PM)ancient Wrote: yes charlie rode a model 90.the camshaft was not a success.may have been if they had persevered with it but they gave up on it.according to champ 2 exist one in the haynes museum. try and find a copy of the champ book for the best pictures you will ever see of sunbeams.

OK, as I thought Charlie (an incredible man) won on a Model 90. About Champ's Sunbeam "bible", yes, I knew it as a wonderful book but there are two titles from the same author:
- "The Sunbeam Motorcycle", published by Haynes in 1980 (second edition by the same publisher in 1986), 205 pages.
- "The Illustrated History of Sunbeam Bicycles and Motorcycles", published by Haynes in 1989 (it had a reprint in 1995), 112 pages.

Which is the difference between those two books (bicycles apart!)? Is there on one of them a photo of the legendary George Dance during the 1920 Senior TT race (that he REALLY deserved to win!)?

the book i have is the illustrated history of sunbeam motorcycles.which includes bicycles.and there are many pictures of george dance from side valves up to testing the overhead cam crossflow s7.the quick one,too quick for the rear axle.so they didnt use it. I havent seen the other book.there is a line up of the 1920 sunbeam riders including dance but not with race numbers although the registration numbers are seen.he was only leading by over 3 minutes ! when an inlet valve broke. i have ridden/owned most bikes but i would still be happiest with a sunbeam.

(06-08-2009, 07:20 PM)ancient Wrote: the book i have is the illustrated history of sunbeam motorcycles.which includes bicycles.and there are many pictures of george dance from side valves up to testing the overhead cam crossflow s7.the quick one,too quick for the rear axle.so they didnt use it. I havent seen the other book.there is a line up of the 1920 sunbeam riders including dance but not with race numbers although the registration numbers are seen.he was only leading by over 3 minutes ! when an inlet valve broke. i have ridden/owned most bikes but i would still be happiest with a sunbeam.

Thanks for your reply. I know the history of that damned broken inlet valve.
Sunbeam's were marvellous racing motorcycles. If you do not know this shot, this is how George raced his own Sprint Special during the 20's, when he was absolutely untouchable in the sprint races:
http://tinyurl.com/lvs8un
[from http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/]
What a rider!