I remember Phil Read walking out of a big race meeting at Cadwell Park in the late 1960's where he was one of the billed riders because Charlie Wilkinson refused to let him have extra practice, over and above what all the other riders had, so he went home. Funny though, I dont remember the racing being any the worse without him.

A selfish sport? maybe for some, and a few more than others, but for most not at all, I am to old to remember how many unselfishly helped me, many of them world famous household names, or how many I helped and the pleasure and gratitude I received from most.

There is a great difference, Garry, between speaking your mind and downtight rudeness and lack of respect. Phil Read should understand that if you do not respect others, they will not respect you. I have no time for the man.

And I bet Phil didn't lose any sleep about racing there either, and tom we are all different personalities which makes us all unique. But when we all go racing we are out for ourselves.

i think garry means out on the track more than anything tom. he's helped and been helped by the best in the past, and i know from fact he is grateful for all of it. he even came to see me in hospital as well, but the tight sod didn't bring me any flowers
on the other note, i was standing just after the start and finish straight at mallory some years ago, a british championship meeting. this guy comes over the paddock bridge and parks himself next to me leaning on the wire. "not the same as when i raced" he says. oh yes, i thought, here we go again. this bloke who is pst out his face and slurring procedes to slag off every and all riders that i mentioned or that he caught sight of. after a few minutes and with steam coming out my ears i told him in no uncertain terms "why don't you fk off?" and i walked away. turning round for a glare at this lowlife i was surprised to see it was? yes it was p.r.
things like that tend to put you off people, no matter how great they are or were. we all have our lows, but don't have to broadcast them to an audience do we? great rider he was indeed, but personality? nah!
ade!

Nice one Ade.

I have been reading this thread with great interest.
In the days when I mixed with racers regularly, I kept
on hearing lots of people slag of PR.
I used to think that it was something of nothing.
He was a great rider and his biggest handicap, was being
around at the same time as the great SMB.
There were , of course, the little bits of friction with the
one and only Bill Ivy, not to mention a story about PR
not "letting " Bill win a TT. But, on the whole, he was good
to watch.
I, like so many, thoroughly enjoyed being on the Island to
see PR beaten by the comeback legend that was SMB.
So, yes, as a rider, top notch. Few equals, never mind
superiors.
BUT, I have heard so many people declare their undying
detestation for the man, that I can only think that there is
something in the reputation....

As for being a selfish sport? Thats not what I have witnessed
over the almost 50 years that I have been following motorcycle
road racing. In fact, there seems, to me at least, to be a high
proportion of selfLESS people participating.
But, hey, what do I know...?

MV

Well if you have been around the sport for 50 years like some of us here you will have known a lot of selfLESS riders, they were in the majority, but probably in the mists of time.

The bill Ivy story was no story it was well documented fact in the MC press. they had an agreement between them who should take which 125 & 250 TT win. I.E one each

Bill Ivy actually stopped at the Creg to allow PR to catch him to take the agreed 1st place, having won the 125 courtesey of Bill, PR then renaged in the 250 race and took that win as well.

On the question of racers being selfish I would say that for me personally I am.

You can work out the reasaons for that for yourselves

I met PR once he broke down at the same spot I had I thought how wonderful to have been sharing track time with someone so great.
He demanded a fag from me..............I had none and don't smoke he said "then your no good to me" and stomped off

Yes Tom, I knew it was a true story, not an urban myth!
I was hoping that somebody knowledgeable, like your goodself, would confirm it and give it credence.
Not for me to ALLEGE anything!
Oh, and I daresay that you have heard other stories about PR, too?
I guess that you are right when you talk about the "mists of time."
But isnt that sadly true of so much in life.
Things AINT what they used to be!

The thing that I take from all this is that there seem to be more
derogatory stosies about this man than any other racer.
To me, my favourite saying applies
"Perception is the only reality"

Thank goodness for all the "decent sorts" in the sport.
That applies to most, if not all, of the peolpe who contrubute here!

MV

mike, i don't dwell in the mists of time, nor do i allege anything. i live in the real world and i DON'T tell lies.
as for these gentlemanly agreements out on track? i think you'll find the factories pulled the strings on that one - not the riders. like i said, when you're out on the track you're on your own. as for gentlemens' agreements? read tom's last line - it says it all
ade!

Ade, I don't know if you ever raced.

I may be wrong, but I suspect not.

However, you know how the world works just as well as those of us who have gone out and been selfish :!:

If you were to come back and tell me I'm wrong about your racing, I would believe you without hesitation.

Meanwhile, keep on ranting :!:

:wink:

err was that a good post or bad? bit late for me larry
as for being selfish out on track? you don't win races and bagsful of points letting people past you. in the paddock it's a different matter, the craic is [usually] brilliant, seen it, asked for it, got it. [and given it back.]
take care, ade!

I have posted a story about Guy Martin, someone who could not possibly try harder, give less quarter or be more talented, but who is going to spend his spare time at the TT visiting schools and working for kids...he is my grandson's hero, and last Southern100 Jake spent many hours pestering him, but when I suggested he should give Guy some space, Guy's reply was that Jake was all right, no problem.
There is no reason why someone who always races to win cannot be a really nice person.
Go Guy! Lets all forget PR, he's not a real star, even though he was blessed with a gift for racing.

One of the best races I ever watched, think it was Southern 100 1961, 350cc race, Phil Read, and Alan Shephard, the result was a deadheat.
Even then, the majority of fans were wanting Shephard to beat Read.

MOOG1 WROTE:-

Does he still have connections with Fabienne Migout?

I spoke with Fabienne and she assured me there was no romance, he
was doing the chasing ! It was one of those publicity stunts and the press
made a big thing of it !! So ther u are I got it from the horses mouth !
And I always found Phil Read ok, he spoke his mind ! But I'm not sticking up for his attitude.

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