Oui ... c'est la plus belle moto! Brmmmmbrmmmmbrrrmm

charlie hulse Wrote:A great idea sticky, But how about a European TT class.

Only bikes made in Europe would be eligible; Aprilia, Benelli, BMW, Cagiva, Ducati, KTM, MV, Triumph and the French "V" twin thingy I can't remember the name of. :?

I'm sure that formulae could be worked out. One off frames (Harris Spondon etc.) if required, but all engines and gearboxes must remain of european manufacture.

The manufacturers would be far more receptive to such a class as there would be no Japanese factories involved so the smaller factories would get far more coverage than they would competing in the other classes.

Look at the coverage MV have got for one Superstock entry

This is not an anti Japanese stance just an idea that could involve other European 'bike companies that don't bother now because of the investment that would be required to even try to compete with 'YamaHonKwakuki'

We could have an all "2 stroke" race the same day.....'Vive la Difference' 8)

Good idea Charlie - and potentially very good for the European bike industry. After all, the Japanese manufacturers owe a great deal of their success to the TT, so what's wrong with someone else getting a look in? The concept should be acceptable to the marketing suits and it gives us fans something different to see and hear. How about it Mr Philips?

The problem with the TT is the amont of time invloved in the event & the amount of races that need to be covered . Because of the limited class selection these days where a rider can compete in all races with two bikes as a against four or five bikes a few years ago .
Of course this is manufacturer driven as we all know . That makes it harder for the organisers of a two week event to differentaite the classes they can have while still maitaining the high standard of competition .
The manufacturers mentioned in one of the earlier postings ie Aprilia , Triumph etc all have the same opportunity as the Japanese manufacturers to partake of the TT but are obviously not interested .
Dont think there hould be a seperate class for European models as weas suggested , remember the Single Cylinder class , personally found it very boring & no offence but when you have classic bikes competing for honours dont think that is what we want at the TT .
Also a lot of riders ouold not be to interested in this unless of course all on works MVs .
We have to remeber that most riders now only ride one bike & thats it from Moto GP down , it is a major achievment for riders now if they can swap tyre manufacturers now without to much problem never mind swapping bikes .
I think with what they have to work with the organisers have pretty much got it right , we all would like to see another solo race on the monday , but looking at the people taking part in the parade on monday afternoon sure this will fill the space nicely .
Dont forget we have the best sidecar race in the world with the entry for that gettting stronger & if possible i will be down brandish first practice to see Moly take it flat as he has already said . Roll on June .

shaun hogg Wrote:i will be down brandish first practice to see Moly take it flat

Is this the same Brandish that "has been changed for traffic reasons....will make no difference to the TT.....does not mean that it is time to treat the course as a new one....no re-measuring it.......records do not matter" (until they are widely circulated to the media if there is the slightest chance that they will bring three more people over to the Island)......?
(Humble scribe ducks down below parapet, puts on steel helmet and earplugs against the bullets from 'them up top of t'organisation'!) :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Peter the subject of re measuring the circuit has been brought up before , & in fact this argument could be brought up in any era on any circuit as time goes on and improvements are made .
The circuit is basically the same as it was when it started , there are just less ruts in the road , not as many fish vans to negotiate ets etc .
Why spoil the legend , to all fans it will always be the thirty seven & three quarter mile long TT course .

shaun hogg Wrote:The problem with the TT is the amont of time invloved in the event & the amount of races that need to be covered . Because of the limited class selection these days where a rider can compete in all races with two bikes as a against four or five bikes a few years ago .
Of course this is manufacturer driven as we all know . That makes it harder for the organisers of a two week event to differentaite the classes they can have while still maitaining the high standard of competition .
The manufacturers mentioned in one of the earlier postings ie Aprilia , Triumph etc all have the same opportunity as the Japanese manufacturers to partake of the TT but are obviously not interested .
Dont think there hould be a seperate class for European models as weas suggested , remember the Single Cylinder class , personally found it very boring & no offence but when you have classic bikes competing for honours dont think that is what we want at the TT .
Also a lot of riders ouold not be to interested in this unless of course all on works MVs .
We have to remeber that most riders now only ride one bike & thats it from Moto GP down , it is a major achievment for riders now if they can swap tyre manufacturers now without to much problem never mind swapping bikes .
I think with what they have to work with the organisers have pretty much got it right , we all would like to see another solo race on the monday , but looking at the people taking part in the parade on monday afternoon sure this will fill the space nicely .
Dont forget we have the best sidecar race in the world with the entry for that gettting stronger & if possible i will be down brandish first practice to see Moly take it flat as he has already said . Roll on June .

I think we'll have to agree to differ here Shaun

I think the European manufacturers might be keener to race (or privateers enter the class) if there was a class in which twins and triples etc could shine and I am firmly of the belief that the TT REALLY does need some variety in the type of machinery racing. I guess you're always going to get conflicting opinions. Personally I used to enjoy the singles and it's currently a technically interesting class with big 800cc jobs that resemble 250GP bikes (which is a good thing :wink: ) up against 450cc bikes which are no bigger than a 125. They look good and sound good too.

While I understand that the manufacturers and riders have a huge influence in what happens, I think the organisers need to accept that those of us that bankrupt ourselves coming to the Island for two weeks every year deserve to be heard aswell. The proposal that Charlie and I have mentioned will not put a massive extra strain on proceedings and will not require any alteration or extension of practice. I sincerely hope it piques Paul Philips' interest enough to at least explore the possibility of making this work.

There are still some of us that like to watch classes of racing that aren't prefixed by 'Super' !!

Ok shaun - I just enjoy throwing the odd hand-grenade into the septic tank, and watching the rainbow in the spray..........
I did not want or expect to restart that particular debate!

Sorry Sticky have to disagree , the proposal will firstly mean the purchace of another bike to take part in this race . Putting more financial burden on the rider , & we all know how much some of the exotic Italian machines cost .
Triumph made a successful return with V&M in 2003 & then what happened ?
Norton & Hizzy exactly the same , just dont think european manufacturers particularly vale events like the TT anymore as against the Japanese.
As said we will always differ on this subject but i found the Singles particularly boring , technically some nice machines , but not particularly exciting .
The demise of the 250 & 125 class has left a void & until manufacturers come out with something else , i think we are stuck with the ormat we have .

Terrible english , meant to say european manufacturers dont value TT .

Point taken Shaun but machines like this are already widely raced on the mainland, so it might not be all that hard to raise a field. The point I'm trying to make is that I wish the organisers would a least take a look at the concept and I go back to my point that there might be more interest if they had their own platform on which to perform.

Sam P'

Quote:"But why European when the TT can't survive without big 4 support ????????"

My suggestion was to have one race for a European TT class, not excluded the Japanese factories from the TT altogether.

If there was a guarantee that the class had at least three - five years at the TT; riders would be prepared to make the investment and the factories would be far more prepared to back a longer term plan.

It's the same with 125/250 two strokes if there was a guarantee that the class will run for a minimum number of years riders/teams would invest in new machines.

The 'new' Dunlop backed GP250 British Championship has proved beyond doubt that the interest is there from teams and riders and there will be lots of new 250's on the grid at the first round in April....and, with a good prize fund, there will be even more next season in 2008.

Wouldn't it be great to see new KTM and Aprilia, Derbi and Gilera (I know its the same bike) and Italjet 250's on British grids, battling it out with the Japanese factories. I'm sure the Italians, Austrians and Spaniards, would relish the opportunity to build more machines to sell on the open market, which would offset some of the cost of running their multi million Euro GP teams.

There is no reason why it should be any different for the TT; other than a thirty-seven and three quarter mile circuit would, by neccessity, demand a minimum starting grid of eighty riders. So that would require an entry of at least ninety.

charlie hulse Wrote:The 'new' Dunlop backed GP250 British Championship has proved beyond doubt that the interest is there from teams and riders and there will be lots of new 250's on the grid at the first round in April....and, with a good prize fund, there will be even more next season in 2008.

44 Teams/bikes according to BSN

I haven't been ignoring this thread when asked to comment, but I haven't been very well this week so haven't been on the net.

Interesting thread.

[quote="cargo"][quote="charlie hulse"]

The 'new' Dunlop backed GP250 British Championship has proved beyond doubt that the interest is there from teams and riders and there will be lots of new 250's on the grid at the first round in April....and, with a good prize fund, there will be even more next season in 2008.


Oh to see, hear and smell the strokers back on the mountain on a nice sunny June day :wink:

Sorry to hear you haven't been well, Paul...any connection with the hooligans night out last weekend??? Anyway, can you give us your thoughts on future TTs and the possibility of innovative classes?

I will do when I feel a bit better - I can't concentrate at the minute and this needs a full answer I am sure.

Paul

Ok, Paul, you can have the night off...you have answered at least one other question, and got Stella excited.

Heaven forbid !

Get well soon Paul !

Stella x

I too wish Paul Philips a speedy recovery from whichever lurgy he has. I will be interested in your comments Paul - to me, the concensus is very much that there must be some way of getting some variety into the programme. It really must be boring to hear a bike approaching....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......Here comes another one....."OOOH! Is that a Honda?" ......