http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=8314

Unconfired rumours say that the sector marshall has been arrested

If this is the case then the next thing will be a withdrawal of marshall services until a conclusion to the investigation....and we all know what that means :shock:

crazy blanket Wrote:If this is the case then the next thing will be a withdrawal of marshall services until a conclusion to the investigation....and we all know what that means :shock:

I hope that happens - permanently.

I know this statement is going to bring heated discussion, so I am asking now that you all bear in mind that people directly affected by this accident are involved. They are entitled to their opinions, as are those who disagree, but any offensive postings will be removed, and, if necessary posters banned. Keep it factual and no aggression, please.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news?articleid=3077660

David Griffiths Wrote:

crazy blanket Wrote:If this is the case then the next thing will be a withdrawal of marshall services until a conclusion to the investigation....and we all know what that means :shock:

I hope that happens - permanently.

I find it hard to understand your comment David, you have always been a keen supporter of the races and I hope that that comment was made in the heat of the moment.

Not 'heat of the moment' at all Colin - I always try to think before I post anything, and that's exactly what I have done this time. I will expand on my feelings in more detail when I have a little more time.

In the meantime, I will copy below part of a posting I made regarding the TT Course Licence issue in November 2005, which will give a clue as to how I felt then - let alone now after several subsequent events. What I said then didn't go down too well with some, but I still stand by every word:

The simple fact is that racing on the roads is incredibly dangerous no matter how many rules and regulations you bring in. Put bluntly, people have been killed on a regular basis ever since road racing began and will continue to be killed on a regular basis for as long as road racing continues. Changing licence conditions will have absolutely no effect on this fact whatsoever. The only way that deaths in road racing will stop is to stop road racing. But with all the hassle, heartache and misery that the sport brings, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

felt i had to reply to this post. sorry david, but i can't agree with you. ban road racing? what comes next, short circuit racing? then car racing? drag racing? cycle racing? road running? kids' sports days? i'm afraid with thinking like that we'd all end up walking round in full face helmets, wearing cotton wool suits with built in airbags. what about work? it's just as dangerous going to work for some people. trust me, i know.
ade!

I FOR ONE CAN SEE WHERE DAVID US COMING FROM, I CAN REMBER ONE PARTICULATLY BAD YEAR THAT AFFECTED ME AND I WAS GLAD TO GET AWAT FROM THE ISLAND, DETERMINED NEVER TO RETURN, HOWEVER THE COMPELLING URGE THAT GRIPS MOST OF US MEANT I WAS BACK AGAIN FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR AND MANY THEREAFTER.
AT THIS TIME LIKR DAVID I FEEL IT WOULD BE MOST INAPROPRIATE TO POST MY FULL OPINIONS.

HOWEVER I WOULD REFLECT ON SOUND ADVICE I WAS GIVEN WHEN WISHING TO ENTER MY FIRST MGP BEING MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT I WAS PROBABLY DOING TWENTY RACE MEETINGS BETWEEN THE START OF THE SEAN AND THE MGPWITH A 125, 250 AND 500, SUFFICIENT TO GIVE ME TEN TT COURSE LICENCES.

ALBERT MOULE A VASTLY EXPERIENCED TT AND IRISH ROAD RACER PLUS A CONTINENTAL CIRCUS GP RIDER ADVISED ME TO FORGET THE 500 AND JUST DO THE 250 AND LEARN THE COURSE ANOTHER YEAR WILL DO FOR THE 500, THE ADVICE WAS SUPPORTED BY TM JACK HARDING AND TT RIDER PAT WALSH, IT WAS SOUND ADVICE, NO 125 MGP THEN.

FURTHER ADVICE WAS GIVEN TO ME BY TERRY SHEPHERD AT THE MANX, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO RIDE WITHIN YOUR LIMIT AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE ABLE TO DRIVE YOUR OWN VAN BACK ON THE BOAT AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR.

SOMETHING THAT WAS ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT YEARS AGO WAS GETTING TT COURSE FIT, TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM RACING SHORTS, AND USING THE FIRST FEW PRACTICE SESSIONS TO ACHIEVE THAT, THURSDAY AFTERNOON WAS THE TIME TO BE REALLY PUTTING THE HAMMER DOWN.

THE TRAGIC INCIDENT AT KIRKMICHEAL ON THE FIRST LAP OF PRACTICE TWO YEARS AGO INVOLVING A NEWCOMER ON A SUPERBIKE HAS COMCERNED ME EVER SINCE, I ASK MYSELF SHOULD A NEWCOMER WITH NO PREVIOUS EXPERINCE OF THE TT BE ON SUCH A MACHINE WITH THE NOW VERY LIMITED PRACTICE, MISTAKES ARE MADE WHEN UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE TO QUALIFY ON SUCH A MACHINE WITH LIMITED COURSE KNOWLEDGE AND AND TIME TO ACHIEVE QUALIFYING SPEEDS.

WE ALL KNOW THAT THE TT COURSE LICENCE IS A FARCE IF NOT DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS SIX CAR PARK RACES, OR EVEN HILL CLIMBS IS RIDICULOUS TO SAY IT IS SUFFICIENT FOPR A RIDER TO RACE A MISSILE AROUMD THE MOUNTAIN, BUT THEN WHO AM i TWO JUDGE WITH OVER 4O STARTS ON EVERY SINGLE CLASS EXCEPY SIDECARS AND A FEW FIRST SIX PLACES THE SUITS WHO HAVE NEVER THROWN A LEG OVER A RACING IN THEIR LIVES MUST BE RIGHT.

David, as one who did all the road races over here from 1976 to 1986, and with eight years at the Manx & the TT in there as well, all I can say is that while you are correct in what you say my own feeling is that only the riders will stop road racing, and that when they decide that enough is enough.

As you know, I haven't quit yet, although one or two meetings a year is my limit.

It's a matter of balance - benefit against risk.

Each of us makes that judgement for ourselves, and I know that you will not be offended if I say that I would not approve of non-racers making these judgements and decisions for us.

Sorry mate!

Wether or not i agree with Davids views i just respect the fact that he comes on a public forum and tells us exactly what his feelings are.

I reckon when you have dealt with a personal tragedy the world looks a whole lot different and being honest you tend to say it like it is, then your conscience is clear, for that you have my admiration.

We dont forget those that gave it all for the sport we love and moan about on the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78OlDxHs_IY&NR=1

At this stage we all should have choices in what we decide to do in our lives. I have watched quite a few programmes regarding climbing Everest. The most heart wrenching one was where climbers were walking past a dying man because they could do nothing for him. Can you imagine anything like this in road racing. But every climber they spoke to rationalised it by saying it was his decision to climb. Wars are fought to give people choices

Rider ability is only one of the factors in the safety of racing, but it has worried me for some time that 30 years ago you could only take part in the TT with a full Grand Prix Licence, which involved a vast amount more racing, and with a degree of success at a high level, not just taking part in a few Mickey Mouse events. The Manx GP was also very fussy about the experiaence of those allowed to start. Couple this, as Tom has said, with the complete lack of a suitable class for newcomers to learn the course at a manageable speed and there is the very real potential for disasters.
I also think that the very existence of a Newcomers award is asking for trouble. There will always be some tempted to ride beyond their experience and ability to try and achieve some sort of fame. In my first MGP in 1968, a young first-timer on a 250 Aermacchi was warned by the stewards more than once for riding beyond his limits, scraping walls and nearly going down escape roads, but he was determined to go for the Newcomers. He was killed in the race, leaving his new wife and their baby that had just been born, back home to grieve. A senseless and wasteful death.
And just a comment to those that have their heads firmly in the sand - if a sport allows spectators to be killed there are very very serious questions to be answered.

The following is my own personal view and im not having a go at anybody
to a point i can understand Davids views, but dont agree with them.
I spoke to a number of top Riders at the TT i wont mention names that wouldnt be fair but i will say they are regular top 10 men and their view was that the Manx is where all Newcomers should start to prove themselves on the TT Course before going on to the TT Races.
I did 5 years at the Manx before moving to the TT ok i was never a top runner at either but had successfull time at both but to be honest i should never have left the Manx. The Manx is there for all Newcomers to the Mountain Circuit to learn their craft all you have to do is look at the who,s who of TT Racing over the past 30 years how many of the top men started at the Manx Hizzy, Foggy, Lougher , Ward, Robert Dunlop and so on their are to many to mention here. But as i said at the start thats my own personal view on newcomers at the TT Races all the best Irish Ago

What some may not Know but the person that has been arrested but not charged now has a criminal record in the eyes of many countries. Being arrested and not charged has to be declared when traveling to the USA, OZ, NZ and a few others, if if you think that you can get away with not declaring an arrest when visiting the USA, think again.

PeterCourtney Wrote:Rider ability is only one of the factors in the safety of racing, but it has worried me for some time that 30 years ago you could only take part in the TT with a full Grand Prix Licence, which involved a vast amount more racing, and with a degree of success at a high level, not just taking part in a few Mickey Mouse events. The Manx GP was also very fussy about the experiaence of those allowed to start. Couple this, as Tom has said, with the complete lack of a suitable class for newcomers to learn the course at a manageable speed and there is the very real potential for disasters.
I also think that the very existence of a Newcomers award is asking for trouble. There will always be some tempted to ride beyond their experience and ability to try and achieve some sort of fame. In my first MGP in 1968, a young first-timer on a 250 Aermacchi was warned by the stewards more than once for riding beyond his limits, scraping walls and nearly going down escape roads, but he was determined to go for the Newcomers. He was killed in the race, leaving his new wife and their baby that had just been born, back home to grieve. A senseless and wasteful death.
And just a comment to those that have their heads firmly in the sand - if a sport allows spectators to be killed there are very very serious questions to be answered.

Peter at the Manx newcomers face a very serious briefing and the standard of behaviour required of them during practise and racing are made very clear...........one thing they are told is not to be chasing times and to build up to faster laps.
Newcomers even get an extra briefing after practise week wher they are taught how to do their pitstops
Even experienced Manx competitors get a briefing and we are always reminded as to how we ought to behave.
I'm sure at the TT newcomers get the same message.

As for the standard of competitor and his/her abilities the quailfying times are there to be achieved if you don't then you are unlikly to get into the race. While the times are not that hard to get you still need to know what your doing and where your going to achieve that time.

Cargo,

Sorry to lighten the mood but you say you have to know what you are doing......

.....given the TT Early Morning Bus Tour and yours/NJ's commentary, following your lines NJ would have spent more time in nobles than he did, you sure you know what you are doing?

Disclaimer: I AM ONLY JOKING!

Ah, but... remember... Nick spent that time in Noble's... Cargo didn't... so...

Only joking , Nick..

Just been at the Welcome Centre at the Sea Terminal, and there was Nick on the big screen, grinning happily!

cargo Wrote:you still need to know what you're doing and where you're going to achieve that time.

And so it should be, Cargo: one big difference these days is that it seems impossible to do the 20 or 30 laps that we managed in my day. As Tom Loughbridge quite rightly says, the first five sessions are to relearn the course, set up the bikes and so on, very fast laps should only be attempted after you have thoroughly dialled yourself in. Those of us who rode Ron May's Triumph 500 will well remember him being very cross if you didn't do three or four laps on it in a session, and you could not do that if you slept in until the sun was up!
I would suggest that minimum qualifying should also include the need to do at least, say, ten laps of practice, so many of which should be within qualifying time, and exemptions should be rare. If this means more practice sessions, then so be it - if rider (and marshall/spectator) safety really is more important than Jolyon Cholmondley-Smythe getting to his job as a banker without problems!