Just got back from a fantastic few days at the Manx. I can honestly say that the racing thrilled me, especially watching at Kate's yesterday. The top lads were awesome through there, and it looked like the Junior was going to be a close finish. Let's pray that Shane Connor recovers well from his injuries.
I spotted Cargo going through, and said to Sara, "there's Cargo"! Her reply? " There's L'ESCARGOT"! Sorry Cargo, but I thought it was funny.At least you were on the right side of the fence my friend, which is more than you can say about me!
Other highlights? The JDF night was a top night. My thanks to Suzanne Tasker and Kevin Quirk for the invitation. We really enjoyed ourselves with the Hairy Bikers. I was delighted to see Hilary Musson there. Hilary, you have done amazingly well. I felt truly humbled in your presence.
I don't know how much was earned for the JDF, but it really is a worthwhile project. Seeing the plans for the holiday home, made me realise how special Joey was, to have this thrilling project carried out in his name. Well he's a lot more special than Ian Lougher made him out to be!!! Those there will know what I mean.
As for the Manx itself. Well I reckon it needs a real kick in the teeth. I mean, something new, maybe the post classic event that Richard Rose and I mentioned. Or maybe it needs the lesser TT men there, those who haven't a real chance of replicas or better at the TT. Aynone else out there with thoughts on this?
It is no criticism of the MMCC, but as a life member, surely they will welcome open debate on the subject? I am a passionate supporter of the Manx, and wouldn't want it to slip into oblivion. The fantastic attendance this year bears testimony that the public want to see real road racing. Anyway, what is the collective noun for a hell of a lot of Swedes, Germans, Nowegians, French and Italians? Cos there were a lot there!!

Any ex TT rider that does not qualify for the TT should be allowed to compete at the MGP.

I was going to post this next week when it gets a bit quieter, but perhaps this is the right time as you are obviously thinking about things. Harvey Garton is looking for thoughts on the future of the Manx. These ideas will help the MMCC plan the next few MGPs.
If people want to add and perhaps debate ideas on here, I will make sure they are forwarded to Harvey.
If you prefer of course, you can send him your thoughts at the MMCC.

Nick, I think you should expand a bit on the context and possible spec of what you talked to me about on telephone.... might make for some happier two strokists!

As usual Nick your comments are straight from the hip and candid as well.
Everyone with a brain wants to see IOM racing go ahead into the future, but we also don't want to abandon the immense heritage that everyone has a responsible to maintain.
It is the mix of the new and the old that has to be carefully considered, so we all hope that the MMCC, who are the holders of the flame, bend every effort to achieve this end.
No easy task.

Hear Hear, where would I go in June if there was no TT ??

And the Manx has such a good following as well !

Even though I am a Golden Oldie, I see the tradition of the Isle of Man racing being less a part of the modern festival. I enjoyed the re-enactment AND the Classic/Historic Laps but the cost of transporting all the older machines over just for a parade must be enormous and rising, especially with insurance etc..

You all know how much I am a TTFAN, but I feel uncomfortable when the futures of both races come up in conversation or on different websites..

It was said some time ago that racing on the Isle of Man was assured for a certain number of years to come. But are those words meaning less as we go on further into the 21st century with all the political correctness, safety aspects and spiralling costs of participating...

There was also an article recently which talked of the demise of classic and historic laps partly for the reasons above, plus, the fact that most people are less interested in seeing a lot of old gadgies riding motorised bicycles.... It's certainly good to see "copies" of famous TT-winning machines fired up for laps but they storm round at speeds that are not relevant to the ones of the era represented.

I'll keep spending to get to the TT but they can fool some people some of the time and it is now time to put these special events on a straight flat road instead of the bendy bumpy one the events are following.

Paul and Milky have done a great job up to now, but things must go on ever upward and I think yet another discussion must be organised after the racing season has finished for representatives of different aspects of the TT Festival to discuss and develope some parts and chop out others.

The TT and Manx MUST survive.........

Helen Sam Dunlop said it all today after winning a MGP. Hes still learning the mountain but is now forced to go to the TT on a big bike or forget the Island. He said he,s not ready for the TT so how the feck can he learn.

THE RULES HAVE TO CHANGE.

I overheard Sam say that he would come back and do the MGP on a big loud "thumper" and make as much "effin" noise as he could while he continues to learn the mountain.

Now there's sense for you.

It is often said that it takes 3 years to learn the TT circuit.....then maybe they should allow riders upto 3 years even if they win one or two.

Just had an Idea......with the Marshal shortage etc........I have never seen on my trips over for the TT or the Manx a campaign to recruit marshalls..... sign people up while on the boat over?......and maybe a slap up meal as a reward.....

Chriss
The marshalls do get a slap up meal or used to, the last one I went to we got a pie and mushy peas served with a pint of poo beer.

I forgot to add, you want to see the grub Mr Hanson and his gang sit down to, plus the best of free brandy and bubly.

There are usually articles in the TT publicity mags etc on board the boats, but the big problem is that marshals need to be trained and to have done 10 sessions, before they can be completely flexible and go on the road during an incident.
The good news is that lots have signed up for the future, and some have signed up for training here this autumn/winter even though that means they will have to come across to do it . Thanks, folks... you're stars.
If anyone is coming across to do training, and needs somewhere to stay, please PM me, and I will see if I can help.

Put someone on the boat and sell it........maybe you helen in a short skirt :oops:

Reply to FC re the Marshals Supper. It was great... we had a lovely meal which included langoustines, prawns, chili, baked potatoes, lovely salads,a free drink, lots of riders attended to give us their insights into the Manx (several were also marshals). A really good night was had by all.
We also get free training which includes first aid, helmet removal, loading a stretcher on a helicopter, flags, ... a course that is of enormous benefit in everyday life as well as at races. The day is entirely free including lunch, coffee... very nice biscuits(!!) This is provided three-yearly to ensure you are up to date and if you have not dealt with any incidents (most of us) reminds you as you may have not practiced.
I will let you off marshalling this year, Colin, with your arm being in a sling (although you could have done the phones) but next year?

Helen i used to marshall on the mountain in all weathers, morning, day and nights. All we got inthose days was a pie and pea supper plus 1 pint fact. But what stopped me marshaling was when at one race sesion we had plenty of marshalls two of which were SRN nurses, because we had plenty of marshalls they requested if they could stand down and watch, sector marshal agreed but the owner of the Creg wanted them to pay and the sector marshal would not stand up for them girls.

PS keep it secret I have been doing a bit on the side :wink: :wink:

In response to the initial posting from Nick, I would also like to suggest that anyone with constructive ideas for the future of the Manx Grand Prix should put them down on paper and send them to Harvey Garton of the MMCC at "Sundawn" Ballanard Road, Douglas. I have recently compiled my own such thoughts and sent them to Harvey, who thanked me very much for my time and effort, and also told me that only 25 people had done so as yet.
I fully agree with Nick's suggestion that any riders who have not achieved a certain speed at the TT should have the option of returning to the Manx, although I am aware that the Junior and Senior classes at the Manx already attract full grids within the current format. The considerable number of regular TT riders who were refused an entry in this years Centenary event, find themselves in an unfortunate situation, where they may not be accepted for the TT again, and under current rules, they cannot return to the MGP either, which means that they can no longer compete on the TT course after having done so for many years. That is unacceptable. There must be a place for anyone who wants to race on the TT course.

Hi Gang, I have to agree with both NJ and BW on their postings. I have just competed in my first Classic Manx and obtained a finishers medal in the Lightweight Classic Event and all be it with a few problems but we realised what we set out to do on the little Mk 1 Ducati 250 a Finish first and foremost and second a lap at 80+mph which i also achieved and to reach 100mph plus top speed which we also managed so for me we did what we set out to. Now as for the debate ref past TT Riders in the Manx if i was given the option to return to the MGP proper and forego the TT Races in june its where i would go and i make no bones about the fact that im sorry i ever moved to the TT . Ive had some great years at the TT and enjoyed everyone of them . I will be putting in an entry for next years TT Races unless they change the rules and let me come back to the Manx then i will return to the MGP. I think if you havnt achieved 115mph at the TT you should be accepted for the Manx and allowed to return.
As for classes the 125/400 is dewindling i think they should allow up 650 twin 4 strokes run in the 400 class it would bolster this class and you have a lot of people racing them on the short circuits in the UK and Ireland . So i think it makes sence i will put pen to paper on a number of points to Harvey myself within the week all the best one and all Irish Ago.

Of course when considering that any rider who does not reach a minimum of 115mph at the TT being allowed back to the MGP, it must be that the rider is NOT allowed to enter the MGP in the same year, other wise you would have the riders using TT practice as extra practice for the MGP, with the data logging on our 250 this year our rider would know exactly where when and how long to slow down to ensure a non qualification for the TT whilst gaining valuable practice for the MGP.
Some good points mentioned in this thread.
Russ

I had a long chat with Harvey during the manx to see what had come of his survey... in short, very very few replies have been received.

I really do get the strong impression that the MMCC are keen to support any changes that the riders want, but if we the riders don't write in tell the club then nothing will change.

If, say, only 20 riders of the 300 odd write in then the club can only assume that the other 280 are happy with the status quo.

So PLEASE write in with your views and ideas and help this along!

Concerning the idea of a post classic and letting ex-TT guys back, I posted the following back in March and I'm very pleased to learn that this might be gaining some momentum (I don't claim original ownership of the idea - the important thing is that it happens!)

Look how many TZ's, RGs etc used to be in action and where are they now? Hopefully waiting to be raced round the mountain again 8)

"I would suggest scrapping the Newcomer's race and perhaps instigate awards for the first 3 newcomers in whichever race they're in. In it's place I'd suggest a post-classic race. Tridents, Commandos, TZs of all sizes, RG500s etc.

I'd also consider allowing ex-TT guys to ride 250s specifically (not the likes of Lougher & Palmer) but riders such as Bud Jackson, who will probably be there anyway and would probably love a run on a 250. I'd also allow ex-winners of the 250 back in (Steve Kuenne, Gavin Bell etc) basically to keep the numbers healthy in the class and promote some close racing within it."

"I think we're both on the same page with the idea of a post-classic race at the Manx but not how it fits the programme. The trouble with the newcomer's race is you can't tell how many entries you'll get. The last two years have been pretty sparse, so my suggestion for race week would be:

Monday AM: Lightweight/Ultra Lightweight (see my earlier post about the 250 field)
Monday PM: Senior Classic

Wednesday AM: Junior/Lightweight Classic
Wednesday PM: Junior

Friday AM: Post Classic (TZ250/350/750, RG500, RS500, Tridents Rocket 3s, P&M, Jotas etc)
Friday PM: Senior

This would give a 50/50 split between old & modern and really appeal to those who love true race machinery."

I'm rather shocked Harvey has had so few replies, if that is true. I wrote in, as a few I know did, and while I only got the standard reply back I appreciate he can't reply to each individually and that the committee will read (and hopefully consider!) all the suggestions.

To be fair though, this consultation hasn't been very well publicised. If I hadn't happened to frequent these boards I would never have heard of it. And as much as it may shock some web-o-philes, not everybody in the world is on the internet! If I may suggest, this subject is too important to those of us who love the event and dwindling entries suggest that if something is not done to bring the riders (and importantly these days, the marshals!) back the Manx will die. And probably the TT as well soon after. The MMCC should not begrudge a bit of postage to send a flier out to all riders in the last few years soliciting their views.

And without wishing to open old wounds again the ACU has had a part in the decline and could do more to promote the recovery.

My own feelings on letting ex-TT guys back in is that it should be treated with extreme caution. At the moment we have TT winners coming back in the classic Manx, riding expensive replicas of exotic machines (engineered with modern materials and technology with no expense spared) and lapping at speeds unheard-of in the day. Leaving the poor mortals who pay their own entry fees and do their own spannering struggling in their wake. Poor mortals who have supported the races for years from their own pockets.

However I appreciate the dilemma former TT riders may be in now and I would sugest a compromise. Riders who have ridden in any TT should be allowed back to the Manx 5 years after their last TT ride. Any less and you risk pot-hunters using the Manx as a bit of practice and a few easy trophies at the expense of the peons.

Last point, I agree about the post classic, given the paucity of the entry in the Newcomers numbers. Though this would angle the meeting more towards the classics - fine in some eyes but not to others (and those others are the ones who run the sport). Personally, I think it would be a great spectacle, it would certainly bring me back and I reckon the spectators would love it too.

Yep I would definitely be up for that programme.Now wheres me old leathers ?