I'm occasionally bored, and wander off to the other TT website, and check out the banter and gossip. I soon go back to preferring to be bored. What a load of nonense and back biting drivel. Is it me? However, I DO wish that more folk entered into the spirit of this good hearted and well meaning website, and offered some useful input into the future of the Manx,and of course the TT. I'm quite sure the TT will be around for a good few years, but the Manx, well I'm not so sure. It will need some good brains to help it out, and piece together a revised programme, otherwise there's trouble ahead.
One thing for starters, apart from the content of the programme, I think it's time for the Senior to go back to Thursday, so that with a postponement, it could be run on Friday. It astonishes me that the MMCC had no plan to run the event on Saturday. Had I been a Senior runner, and prepared my RG500 all through July and August like I used to do, I would have been spittin' feathers! the response of the riders to the cancellation has been extremely mild and well mannered in my opinion. There was a fair backlash with regard the Lightweight lap reduction, but hardly a murmur on the Senior cancellation. For instance, do the Senior riders have their entry fee returned? What's the regulation say with regard abandonment of the meeting, cos' I bet the huge legal content of the MMCC committee will have that one covered!

Hi nick re the future of the manx, i spoke to Harvey Garton a couple of times during the manx re the future. And make no bones about it they know what potential problems lie ahead. We discussed Post Classic etc, but as he said they were not the most reliable of machines on the island. We looked at each class in turn and the questions that kept coming back was what do you replace it with. We both agreed that the mountain course licence has had a major impact on the classic side of the meeting. Also i personally think the classic senior will drop again next year as the only achievable goal, ie the rep, gets pushed further away by professional riders on exoctic bikes. Why don't they take the time of the first amateur home as the starting point for the reps. He did say that any changes would not happen overnight as they want the riders to have time to plan. I just hope they don't do what they did with the singles at the TT. Run a couple of times then drop them. We have been given the opportunity to have our say, but as mentioned else where only 25 people had replied before the start of the manx, hardly overwhelming. I want the manx to survive as our whole year revolves around it.

There were plans to run the senior on Saturday but there simply weren't enough marshals to meet minimum manning levels.The races relied heavily on visiting marshals this year and with over 150 of them going home Friday night/Sat morning the course just couldn't be covered.

I think we all know the various factors regarding local guys pulling out well enough not to go over them again.

Is there any reason why we can't go back to Tuesday/Thursday racing with fewer classes?

As an entrant in this year's Senior, I was very disappointed that we couldn't get an outing on the big bikes. The MGP is the biggest event of my racing season and is the meeting that I devote the most preparation, expenditure and effort to.
Obviously the weather has been a major disruption to almost all of this summer's racing and I can understand why the organisers are reluctant to let us out in anything but dry conditions these days. The unfortunate consequences of the insurance/legal situation we've ended up in means they have to safeguard themselves as well as exercise a duty of care to the competitors. The nanny state is encroaching everywhere.
There are lots of interesting points made in the earlier contributions to this thread - marshalling levels, race schedules, machine classes, entry numbers, Mountain Course licenses. The one thing they all appear to have in common is to call into question the health of the MGP.
There doesn't appear to be any problem getting enough marshals for the TT but the MGP is another matter altogether. In recent years I've always marshalled on the day that I'm not competing but that's really a minor contribution to what is clearly a major problem for the MMCC. Perhaps if there were fewer race days then we wouldn't have such an acute problem? However, which classes would we drop? Or could we run 3 races on each of 2 race days instead of the current format of 2 races/3 race days? Would the club be prepared to let competitors do 2 races on one day if there were only 2 race days? Which days would we run on (-bearing in mind Monday is a Bank Holiday and lots of local marshals don't mind helping out)?
Falling entry numbers aren't helping either. The Mountain Course License has been instrumental in putting people off, especially amongst the Classic riders as their machines are particularly fragile and expensive. I have friends who've effectively given up racing because they can't afford or aren't interested in meeting the license conditions. The subsidiary point that has been endlessly made is that nothing prepares entrants for racing on the Mountain Course other than practice on the Mountain Course. Circuit racing is a complete waste of time in that respect and I am firmly of the view that the high number of fatalities in the year preceding the course license introduction was nothing more than a tragic statistical anomaly.
The definition of a 'classic' has always been something that invokes strong views. As appealing a sight and sound as they are to a certain age group, they are of little interest to many riders. Their enormous expense in comparison to modern machinery makes them way beyond the means of all but the deepest pockets. If we're going to get fuller grids, it's clear that either the definition has to be changed/loosened or supplementary classes introduced to augment the grid. Perhaps some kind of air-cooled, twin shock, wire wheel class? There must have been loads of machines production raced in the 1970s that would attract spectator interest and encourage entrants?
The one thing that has changed the nature of the MGP more than anything else for me in recent years has been the desparate lack of practice time. There seem to be endless delays in getting sessions started and an early halt often seems to be called, the 'Roads Open' car going out with almost unseemly haste. The implications for safety are obvious - the pressure to get fast laps in from the word go is always there.
The lifeblood of any race meeting is the number of entrants the event attracts. If we don't figure out a way to make the MGP more attractive to greater numbers of entrants than we're currently seeing, we're looking at its demise - death by a thousand cuts. That's the last thing I'd want to see.

First welcome to TTwebsite David...enjoy

I can't help but feel that no one is out there promoting the Manx GP and trying to recruit riders.
Paul Philips seems to find newcomers for the TT but it seems no one does this job for the Manx. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that what is lackng is promotion of the event.
Having said that I would be very much against the mass commericalisation that afflicts the TT being applied to the Manx.

I do my best to convince people that entering and riding in the Manx is an experience well worth doing. I'd like to think that at least one newcomer this year was helped in his descision to enter by listening to me.

If every Manx regular could convince one newcomer to go then we'd be over subscribed.

I like the idea for some sort of post classic race and if it came about I'd get myself a bike to do it.
As for classic entries being down I'm hopeful of at least one new extra classic rider next year
:wink:

BTW I've got my 6 done

It isn't only the Classic riders who have been affected by the Mountain Course License issue. I have this year spoken with 4 past Lightweight entrants who were either deterred or prohibited from racing at the Manx due to the 6 signatures rule. All of them were Finishers in the 2006 Manx.

Although Gail had decided after Hilary's accident not to compete this year, I can reveal that the TT Course Licence issue would have prevented her from competing in any case. She had 'only' 5 signatures - the meeting that would have given her number 6 and a ticket to 'safety' was cancelled because of snow and gale force winds. We sent a letter to the ACU explaining the situation, but made the serious mistake of basing it on factual information and common sense - neither of which were ever likely to cut any ice with the ACU! I might post a copy of this letter sometime, just to show how laughably naive I am. Perhaps we should have done what I know some riders do, and send in false documents which are never checked properly and which invariably get approved without any problems. The entry for the 2007 MGP provided conclusive proof that the TT Course Licence in its current form is well on the way to killing the event, as we all knew it would.

David, your post about Gail is a sad insight to what is happening to this great old event. I do understand your cynicism too.

Now Cargo?
Was that you ofering your services?
Could you be the Paul Phillips of the Manx?
I could see you being just the man for the job with your knowledge of the event and its riders.
You also have the networking capabilities to carry it off.
You woud be a natural to see and encourage new riders and "tell it like it is"
So, is this the perfect job for Stephen Carr, after he hangs up his leathers.?
I hope I havent embarrassed you (he lied!), o rput you on the spot?

MV

Like everyone , I was really disappointed to learn that the Senior was cancelled and I am sure that the MMCC Committee will be looking at various options for the future.

Some readers may not be aware that as well as JDF , I am a Trustee of the Mike Hailwood Foundation and this Charitie's objective is to bring new riders to the IOM especially the MGP.

Due to work and other commitments , I am reliant relaint upon other people to recruit on our behalf and Paul Phillips does an excellent job with the TT and for MGP , Norman Gordon , Davy Morgan and Mark Castle assist MHF with recruitment ..

Looking back at the riders we have brought to the MGP , many have gone on to be star performers at the TT and yet again a MHF Virgin won a newcomers MGP.

If any readers knows of any young riders (max age for assistance is 30) who would be interested in MGP 2008 then please contact myself , Norman , Davy or Mark

From what i've heard the Mountain Course license has a lot to answer for,re riders not coming back. Could we not get some representation to try to alter the system to say a points scoring system where certain types of meeting count for more points. To say that qualifying for the manx is only worth one signature the same as 5 laps of mallory, is an insult to our intelligence. The manx should carry a lot more weight. This would help cushion the blow for future years. But then again the ACU would have to admit they were wrong. More chance of me winning a TT and i don't race.

Just on another point, i know the ACU fought hard to get this years manx on. Now i know the un converted among us may question why they put so much effort in, refunds on course licence may be one. But could the threat of the collapse of the meeting, and all the extra revenue it generates, all related to safety of course, be used to try and get changes to the course license system. If no manx, no need to do extra meetings at closely related tracks

Kevin please forgive me I'd forgotten about the great work done by the MHF.
There is no doubt that MHF have helped dozens of newcomers compete at the Manx.
I'm not so sure that Norman and Davy are out there week in week out recuiting for the Manx.

Norman runs a busniess of his own he is also COC for Mid-Antrim and Ulster Centre delegate
Davy is a more or less a fulltime racer.

I don't know about Mark Castles.

There are roughly 300 odd licence holders in the MCUI last time I heard.

There must be thousands in GB.

I should imagine every licence holder in Ireland is aware of the Manx but in GB ? Not so sure.

I've meet allsorts of English bikers/racers who've never heard of the Manx GP.

What about the TTMA :?: they have a stand at all the major GB bike shows could someone not get organised and join them on that stand and work to recruit competitors. :?:

As a foot note when I was a newcomer I got NO help from the MHF not because the MHF didn't want to help me but because they didn't know I was planning to do the Manx and I didn't know to tell them.
Davy Wood looked after things here at that time and he was shocked to see me in the queue for the ferry..........."should have told me" he said "didn't know I had to" I said.

To be fair I got a trip with MHF the next year.

Isn't it just wonderful that we can talk about this in a sensible way without argueing

Long may the Manx GP continue. And while I can so will I
I'm not quite ready for a fulltime marshals job yet :wink:

Hi Cargo

Busy this week end with JDF but will speak to you later this month regarding MHF with a view to recruiting more up and coming Irish riders

Your giving your age away when you mentioned the infamous Davy Wood trips

Cheers
Kev

An outstanding post by David Taylor if I may say so, and very neatly encapsulates the big issues surronding the problematic future of the Manx.

The MMCC now have a year to plan for the future and I hope lessons will have been learned to avoid the farce that was 2007 ever happening again. As much as Roger and the team do a great job organising the marshals it's vital that a postponement must be catered for - it's hardly unknown for a race to be postponed due to weather!

And I don't think the breakdown rate should be a major issue. When I got a rep in the '88 Junior about half the field (on TZ350s) didn't finish the 6 laps. That didn't make the race any less exciting! What would spoil it is starting with only half a grid - which comes back to attracting the riders back, and the sparse Newcomers Race is an obvious candidate for change.

David also makes a valid point about the tragic events of 2005, which were indeed just a statistical blip. No FMEA was ever carried out (or if it was, it was never published) of how the Course Licence would change anything, just a few woolly platitudes. In fact any accident on the mountain course is a potential fatality so looking at one year with a high number of fatalities is a red herring. The supposed aims of the Course Licence could be achieved in other ways that are more relevant to the event and which wouldn't cost riders a small fortune to meet (these have been previously suggested, and ignored!). It amazes me that the MMCC accept entries for the TT from riders who have never raced on the IoM before, surely a bad move for safety though the commercial motives are obvious.

I think the MMCC need to address the issues of inadequate number of practice sessions, rising costs to competitors, professional TT pot-hunters using the MGP as easy pickings and a couple of extra licence signatures, and how the number of marshals can be boosted (Steam Packet vouchers anyone?)

I believe 2008 will be make or break. Fingers crossed.