FC Wrote:Shutting the mountain was not for practices but for testing, at present Jurby airfield is used but the airfield does not give any feedback to the rider.

And how are you going to marshal that? Have medical cover? and all the moaning of the other Island residents who can not get over the mountain. We have to go on a regular basis to Ramsey Cottage. Lets just face it Colin there is nothing wrong with the way the practices are now, and Colin running a machine over the mountain is also not a great way to set up a machine.

After talking to a couple of the riders tonight, they thought that having such a facility like the mountain section to use was better than Jurby and a good idea although they did
say that not every rider would use it.

Clucky wrote> we have to go to on a regular basis to Ramsey Cottage Hospital.
Thats not a problem is it you could use the coast road or via Kirk Michael and is the mountain not one way TT.

I still say we have to find that extra 30 mins + practice per session even if its only to help the chairs who get a bad deal out of the whole practices.

On that topic, surely it's not rocket science to rotate the practices... diferent class first each night. The old chestnut about the sidecars breaking down or spreading oil rings a bit hollow after this year's TT.

I thought I would have a crack so I put a quick list together which includes 400's. It might be a good idea to allow MGP riders to compete and still allow them to compete at the MGP. I can't see any problems with that and it would probably enhance both fields.

The following riders currently race 125's, 250's or 400's. I have listed a class next to each rider as a guide, a class which each rider has entered competition prior.

Ian Lougher (250cc)
John McGUINNESS (250cc)
Bruce Anstey (250cc)
Michael Dunlop (250cc)
Guy Martin (250cc)
Ryan Farquhar (250cc)
Chris Palmer (250cc)
Andrew Neill (250cc)
John Burrows (250cc)
Paul ROBINSON (250cc)
Christian ELKIN (250cc)
William DUNLOP (250cc)
Denver ROBB (250cc)
Henrik VOIT (250cc)
Ian MORRELL (250cc)
Emlyn HUGHES (250cc)
Neil RICHARDSON (250cc)
Mark LUNNEY (250cc)
Ivan LINTIN (250cc)
Brian SPOONER (250cc)
Phil HARVEY (250cc)
Dwyer AGNEW (250cc)
Davy Morgan (250cc)
Paul Owen (250cc)
Phil Harvey (250cc)
Paul Shoesmith (250cc)
Sam Dunlop (250cc)
Chris Barratt (250cc)
Neil Chadwick (250cc)
Peter Wakefield (250cc)
Shaun Harris (250cc)
Dean Martin (250cc)
Alastair Bayley (250cc)
David Yeomans (250cc)
Tony Cawte (250cc)
Brian Mateer (250cc)
Robert Knight (250cc)
Neil Kent (250cc)
Kevin Strowger (250cc)
Chris Barratt (250cc)
Carl Salvage (250cc)
Carl Roberts (250cc)
Colin Wilcock (250cc)
Carl Salvage (250cc)
Jeff Ward (250cc)
Robert Knight (250cc)
AlanBudJackson (250cc)

Michael WILCOX (125cc)
Mark CURTIN (125cc)
Mark LUNNEY (125cc)
David LEMON (125cc)
Dan Sayle (125cc)
Nigel Moore (125cc)
Phelim LUNNY (125cc)
Mick CHATTERTON (125cc)
Tim STOTT (125cc)
Graham WILSON (125cc)
James Ford (125cc)
Chris McGahan (125cc)
Barry Davidson (125cc)
Paul Dobbs (125cc)
Robert Knight (125cc)
Chris Barratt (125cc)
Mark Buckley (125cc)
Jon Vincent (125cc)

Oliver LINSDELL (400cc)
Les SHAND (400cc)
Alan Oversby (400cc)
Tim Poole (400cc)
David MADSEN-MYGDAL (400cc)
Joe PHILLIPS (400cc)
Dan Kneen (400cc)
Ryan Kneen (400cc)
Mick Goodings (400cc)
Mark Parrett (400cc)
Alistair Haworth (400cc)
Alex HUTCHINSON (400cc)
Paul DOBBS (400cc)
Steve Ferguson (400cc)
John BARTON (400cc)
Maria COSTELLO (400cc)
Dave WOOLAMS (400cc)
Dave MOFFITT (400cc)

In addition to the above listed riders, the 2007 North West had the following number of riders who have not been listed:

20 250's
10 125's
15 400's

Other potential competitors who competed in the 2008 TT could be:

Cameron Donald
Keith Amor
Gary Johnson
Carl Rennie
Ian Pattinson
Mats Nilsson
James Hillier
Jamie Robinson
Ian Mackman
Craig Atkinson
Phil Harvey
Dan Stewart
Ian Armstrong
Si Fulton

So to summarise, there are 85 competitors' names who are listed as a guide and who currently race the relevant classes, a further 45 who are not listed but competed at the North West 200 and 14 potential competitors who currently race at the TT.

This gives 144 potential competitors. Let's be over contingent and chop the numbers in half. This leaves 77.

It wouldn't be particularly difficult to make the above figures significantly stronger. 2 stroke racing is strong in England and Ireland and there are a bucket full of 2 stroke riders who race on the Continent where 2 stroke racing is very popular. I haven't considered potential newcomers - the list is endless.

The riders want it as do the fans, it's just a shame Neil Tuxworth runs the TT!

To that list I'll add some guys from my part of the world:

MARK TYRELL (250)

TED ROEBUCK (125/250)

BOB PRICE (400 - PODIUM FINISHER!)

I know for a fact all 3 would be back like a shot given the chance

Frankly, if a decent sponsor was brought on board and a good prize fund offered (in keeping with the other solo races) I'm sure you'd get an entry. And, as you mention Ben, how much un-tapped talent is there in Europe racing these things right now? There's still a lot of road racing in Eastern Europe where guys are riding 250s.

Why not have the Lightweight TT to Thundersport rules? Allow for their GP2 and Junior Powerbike classes and I reckon you'd have yourself a race. The manufacturers get enough opportunity to ram there products down our throats.. At what (if any?) point does the spectator get heard?

I am not sure why they need extra practice time (apart from bad weather causing loss of practise sessions). I thought some of the fine weather 08 Practise sessions were not that well supported after the riders had done 2 laps. Assume you have a 1000cc bike to Superstock spec, and are going to ride it in the Superbike, Superstock, and Senior TT, it is almost now possible to qualify the bike in the 1st practise session.
The morning practise sessions will never return, and neither will the 250 2 stroke races.
Although Ben's list of 250's looks impressive, come the race day, and it would be just be a small entry. I would like to see-say 15 MGP competitors allowed to enter the 2nd Supersport Race, this would introduce new names to the race, and contradicting myself, why not allow 15-20 250cc 2 strokes in the 2nd Supersport Race. Call the 1st Supersport Race the Junior TT. Call the 2nd Supersport Race the ...............?

Just wonder how many people have missed out on the Morning Practices, one of the amazing features of the TT races...pity they cant bring that back.

Since the TT is becoming more professional and commercial why not pay generous compensation to those parties that are inconvenienced by the event? It is amazing how cooperative people can become if they have a nice thick envelope full of money in their pocket.

Ah the unmistakable fragrance of money!

End of June is for me and others from Germany very near by the school-holidays. They started this year at the 25th of June. And not everybody can go over for the TT-fortnight and whe he comes home he go to Spain or somewhere for two weeks with the family.
Michael

Michael Wrote:End of June is for me and others from Germany very near by the school-holidays. They started this year at the 25th of June. And not everybody can go over for the TT-fortnight and whe he comes home he go to Spain or somewhere for two weeks with the family.
Michael

Nice reply Michael as I said employers decide the holidays and in the EU they start after the TT, so for those that want to attend the TT is outside of their Holiday dates . I know that for 2009 they can not be changed but for 2010 they can. The big problem is the BSB but saying that they have not helped out with the TT dates so feck them off or put the ACU under pressure to ensure that the TT survives, after all its the TT that pays the ACUs bills

Love the 250/125 list. I too am a big fan and I have suggested the same in the past about allowing MGP riders in. We need to see some more racing machinery, the solos this year were boring.

Re the point of this thread, I can't help feeling that reduced practicing is down to the organisers - losing early morning practices (for me, one of my favourite things about TT) and Thursday afternoon has caused these problems. Too many "come-overs" who buy a house and then realise they'll get woken up at 6am. It's only 7 times a year and it's not like 6am is THAT early. But I don't believe we'll ever see a return of the early morning practices now.

Re dates, if TT was held later, it would mean that our school children wouldn't have to sit exams while races are on, as GCSE's and A levels would be finished before the TT ran. Surely that's a good thing?

I have to agree with Chris though, why is more practice time needed when you only need a 600 and a 100 to compete in every race. Dedicate a whole session to the sidecars or perhaps bring back early mornings just for them? Practice would be well attended. Sidecars need more priority - after all they provided the best race of the week and are the only race bikes left.

Colin, my understanding was that Jurby wasn't available for testing this year during TT?

This thread appears to be about changing things for the better at the TT. Adding more practice time, improving the spectical by offering a different class etc. I think you need to realise that the TT is so inflexible it won't happen. Certainally won't happen if the paying public are suggesting it.

At the end of the day a 2-stroke or thundersport race is absolutely possible around the mountain circuit with very little effort. Just state publically now that one will be introduced next year subject to sufficent interest being shown by the end of February 2009. If there isn't the interest, just pull it. Look at the Billown races, announced very late, the format even later, poor entry and poor spectacle as a result.

To the average Joe there is too much practice now. Every night you see the roads empty at the end of a session long enough for the top men to get 6 laps in. Then we have more in race week. Thursday or Friday afternoon should be reinstated. There are more than enough marshalls at that time and the conditions are more similar to race conditions. It should never have been removed, the oddest of odd decisions.

If more practice is still necessary close the roads 1 hour earlier. Working hours can be changed by 1 hour for a week and the TT organisers could even partner with the CoB to get this done.

Compare the amount of practice to the levels at other events. It seems that there is more practice than racing at the TT because it is important that newcomers break the lap record in 2 years.

All this requires a bit of flexibility, negotiation and thought. It won't happen.

The Billown races a poor spectacle.. what rubbish!
Call them TT or not that 250 was epic .
I disagree that the public think there is too much practice. A great many spectators don't care whether it is race or practice, they just love to see the bikes go by, and guys trying their hearts out.
It is important that there is more practice because the bikes are under more pressure due to the rigours of 37 3/4 miles of varied surface, a lap takes approx 20 minutes, so you need lots of time, allowing you to come in, make adjustments , get back out.
Oatssi... what you on today, boy, or are you doing an FC and winding us up!?
I do agree with you about the 1 hour earlier, and the Thursday/ Friday afternoons.
Improvements?.. more practice, as above.. FREE entry to the grandstand and parking in practice week... more newcomers (that's where Paul comes in...most of the other stuff is Organising Committee or ACU), more ideas to encourage young people to be involved as marshals, riders of the future, spectators..
Oh... just a late thought... sorry, guys, but the 250 list is a waste of time... this has been gone through before, and many of those guys have said they would not do the TT on the Mountain course... by the way, at least 2 have retired, or announced their impending retirement. Nobody would like to see them back more than me, but it isn't going to happen, because they won't enter. They have given their reasons, the main one being that the bikes simply don't last the course.
Personally, I can't tell the difference between the various classes any more (except the wonderful sidecars, of course), but I enjoy the skill of the riders (when I can identify them!!.... bring back bikes, fairings and helmets that can be identified at 100 yards, please)...

Another problem with moving the TT to the end of June would be the annual 85 mile Parish Walk which is held as close to the longest day as possible.

Are we now not asking to much by having two race meetings a year on the Mountain, I would not like to see the loss of either meeting but it does look like the DTL are not putting as much help to the MGP anymore which is not a good sign.

thewitch Wrote:Oh... just a late thought... sorry, guys, but the 250 list is a waste of time... this has been gone through before, and many of those guys have said they would not do the TT on the Mountain course... by the way, at least 2 have retired, or announced their impending retirement. Nobody would like to see them back more than me, but it isn't going to happen, because they won't enter. They have given their reasons, the main one being that the bikes simply don't last the course.

I disagree. The list was put together as a guide as to the number of riders who ride 2 strokes today in Britain. 95% of that list features competitors who have raced a 2 stroke in the last 12 months. The bikes are there as are the riders.

I note your point about retirements etc etc but as the high numbers indicate, it isn't going to cause a problem. As I stated, even with an over contingent chop in half, a field of 77 would still be larger than any field starting a TT race this year. There is a huge untapped resource in riders who race on the continent. The TT has full time employees who could quite easily attract a strong field including many continental newcomers. Plenty of time and plenty of resource. Your argument is not very strong.

The idea that riders are saying they wont race a 2 stroke at the TT becuase of a high rate of attrition is incorrect. I would like to see some backup to that comment, name names? I've not spoken to anyone who has said that before. If that is a sole reason why riders would not compete, classic racing at the Manx would never be so strong.

Good 2 stroke racing takes place at every road race in Britain except the TT. Unfortunately, the attitude of 'can't' and 'never' appears to be leaving the stalwart road race fans somewhat unhappy.

Finally, I wasn't impressed by the 2 stroke races at Billown. Yes the first half of the 250cc was good but it was not TT racing, nowhere near.

I have to agree with Ben "reliability of a 2-stroke over the mountain is an invalid excuse or reason". What about the 600's at this years TT?

My point wasn't really that they were unreliable, but that the riders/entrants did not see several laps of the TT course as something they wanted to do, given the fragility of the machines.
Most races are considerably shorter than, say, a 3 lap TT, and, of course, don't have the Mountain in the middle of them.
The list is great in itself, but is not a list of people who have said they would enter.

Hi guys

I'll add a few thoughts to this if I may? I should I suppose... my name is at the top of the page!

Going back to the original point regarding practice time etc, I can say that as usual this year, we have obtained feedback from the riders and teams competing in the TT. We have lots of useful feedback, but there has not been any comment about the amount of practice time. It seems to work OK at present and I don't personally see the need to change. It wouldn't be my decision alone to make such a change, but I feel no reason to make a recommendation based on what I know right now.

There was a comment regarding Thursday afternoon session and how the organisers 'shot themselves in the foot' by removing it. I don't see how.

The reason for the change was because of increasing public opposition and subsequently that of the DOT, all relating to traffic flow. All event organisers will tell you, it is essential to keep the local residents as content as possible, as without their support you can face challenging opposition. It wasn't a major change, the teams and riders didn't have any problems with it at the time (they were consulted) and the evening session actually gave them slightly more time than the afternoon session.

With regards to morning practice, let me say two things first. I loved them personally, the uniqueness and the atmosphere, and miss them a lot as they were a big part of my growing up with the event. Secondly, I have been personally blamed in the past for 'getting rid of the morning practice sessions' which I would like to clarify if I can. I didn't take up my role until three years after the decision to remove the morning practice sessions was taken so that is clearly wide of the mark!

To bring them back now would be difficult, simply because of the marshalling issues that have been mentioned, and no matter what one or two of the correspondents here believe, the IOMTTMA are 100% sure that they couldn't man them so who do we believe? I should also say at this point that there is no call from the competitors or teams to reinstate them.

Now onto the racing points. Some interesting comments here, although I feel some are ill-informed and are bordering on personal 'digs' at me as opposed to constructive comment. 2007/08 was a defining time for the TT, following the crash on the last lap of the 2007 Senior TT Race. The resulting changes which had to be made in light of the Coroner's inquest into that incident put exceptional strain onto the resources the TT can currently pull from.

From my own point of view, in the past year, myself and my team have spent around 30% of our time doing the work we are 'supposed' to do, and the rest of the time supporting the various other groups and individuals putting the fundamentals of the event in place in a professional and defensible way, a way which the TT could not take comfort from in the past.

Two words I would use to sum the work done in the past year up would be essential but frustrating.

I am the first to acknowledge that the entry for the TT needs work. This year we simply did not have the time or resource to focus on this, and with an unexpectedly large number of retirements we were found wanting. Luckily, some of the good work we had carried out in previous years was paying dividend, with riders we had brought in like Cameron Donald, Steve Plater, Gary Johnson, Conor Cummins, Keith Amor, Ian Mackman etc putting on a superb show, and closing up the action at the front like never before making the racing terrific.

Someone said to me the other day that the racing was predictable. I had to remind them that NINE different riders stood on the solo podium through Race Week. Tell me who could have predicted that!

Anyway, going forward we find ourselves in a good position so far as my personal role and that of my teams is concerned. We have the support and the resources required to firmly concentrate on delivering our roles effectively for the first time since I have been involved, and I am confident that people will notice considerable and positive changes in the next 12 months.

Despite what many people think, it is our job to promote the event as the rights holder. We do not run the races, set the circuit up, put in the prohibited areas, recruit the marshals and other such tasks which I sometimes believe is the perception of some people. The promotion of the event this autumn, through the winter and into the spring will be aggressive and focused. My team will be taking an active role in the festival for the first time, and we hope to bring all the elements of the overall event together to make it a much more attractive offering for potential visitors. It needs to be more user friendly to get the 'chunk' of it you want, and we will do this and soon.

My own personal aim is to make the event much more appealing to a wider audience. Reading a lot of these postings here and on other web sites, there is a lot of detail being discussed, but it is detail that means nothing to the casual fan or the potential fan. We can't afford to ignore the dyed in the wool enthusiast, but concentrating on him alone is a dangerous game for the future so we need to marry up the aspiration of both.

The target for 2009 has to be a significant amount of extra visitors – ultimately that's our job – and whilst totally and unrelentingly essential, nobody will come to our event just because it has excellent safety precautions. There will be changes, changes I believe to be exciting changes, changes which will take our event to the next level.

Back to the racing, questions are being asked about the entry for 2009 already; fair point.

For those interested parties, we have instigated a detailed rider recruitment programme for 2009, led by our two Rider Liaison Officers Richard Quayle and Johnny Barton. Collectively we have listed around 100 riders we believe may consider the TT in 2009 or further into the future. We have begun contacting them to discuss the possibility, and have so far reached around 80 of them. I am pleased to say that we are enjoying an excellent response, especially from up and coming young riders in the BSB paddock, who I can only guess are buoyed by the success the likes of Conor Cummins and James Hillier have enjoyed. In addition that though, we are scouring Europe for talented riders who will compliment our event, and we are back into the States to talk to one or two more. Thank God for the internet!

At this years MGP we will be bringing in a number of potential riders to talk to us in more detail and to look at the circuit with out Rider Liaison Officers. I am VERY optimistic that we have some exciting times to look forward to so far as the entry for the 2009 TT is concerned, and I am saying that in June 2008!

As usual, I must acknowledge that we will not be able to please all the people all of the time, and I'd be a fool to even try. Most of the people most of the time is realistic. In my job we have two clear KPI's – economic impact and contribution to the Island's positive national identity, and I am confident we can improve on these, and by doing that we will have addressed the majority of the points being raised. If we can merge that successfully with our partners efforts to ensure rider and public safety standards are as high as they possibly can be, we are in a good position.

It sometimes feels as though we are being accused of foul play with the TT and there are more conspiracy theories about the event than there are about the JFK assassination! I can only speak for myself when I say I want nothing out of the TT but for it to be as successful as it possibly can be. I put my heart and soul into the job, and if someone better comes along to take over for me, I'll be the first to wish that person well. In fact, I'd be rather relived!

Taking on this job has cost me a lot of things, and manys the time I've considered whether or not it is worth it. One day I will go into the detail about this, and I think people would be shocked to learn some of the things that have gone on. But I love the TT, it means the world to me, and I am absolutely honoured to be able to play a part in it.

I don't profess to be perfect in my job (who is?) and I doubt my colleagues in any of the organisations involved in the event do either. We all get it wrong from time to time, but speaking personally, I am always on the look out for constructive comments, be them positive or negative. My e-mail address is paul.phillips@gov.im and my phone number at my desk is 01624687059. I would like to encourage anyone with comment to make to contact me via either of those methods, as I don't always get time to read the long threads to manifest on the road racing web site forums. I'll be happy to hear from you no matter what you have to say.

On another note, I am shortly going to be recruiting for my team, so there is a chance to go even one better and put your 'money where your mouth is' so to speak by joining us. As soon as we are ready I will post the recruitment details here in case anyone is interested.

Good night.

Paul

Paul I have to say that's the reply that a lot of people have been waiting to see, for once you have spelt out you true position and role at the TT. Lets hope now that all the accusations that are repeatedly fired on you and the team end here.
Thanks.