For Helen !!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elenaelena/1529319324/

Yes there are Electric Three-Wheelers !!

Lets just face it Mick Grant should not be riding. He hasn't qualified for a course licence and he is blind in one eye and now can hardly see out of the other. Whether he is disabled or not the fact of the matter is he should not be allowed to ride. If he does it completly compramises the course licence and why it is there. It may even be a bigger problem if god forbid he has an accident.

Wonder if any smart lawyer type has considered starting up a class action so that all the poor b*ggers who have been forced to spend their hard earned to qualify for the pathetic TT Course Licence can claim their expenses back should an unqualified rider be allowed to start in a TT. There are sound grounds for one to be successful and it would add up to a considerable amount. And who would be the defendant? Perhaps another hastily unminuted meeting of the Road Race Committee of the ACU may be in progress at this moment!!!!

Here is another question for you all. Is the Winner a TT winner? or something else? They have won a TT race, so do they rank along all the other TT winners this year?

DCLUCIE Wrote:If he does it completely compromises the course licence and why it is there.

Can anyone tell me exactly why it (the licence) is there - a real properly thought-out justification, with statistics to back it up?

PeterCourtney Wrote:

DCLUCIE Wrote:If he does it completely compromises the course licence and why it is there.

Can anyone tell me exactly why it (the licence) is there - a real properly thought-out justification, with statistics to back it up?

You'll have to ask the members of the ACU who decreed it, and keep my earlier post in mind when you do.

I know I am going to get slated for this, but what the heck, has never put me off before.

I think the licence is really a good thing. I think it has done its job as well. I think that the licence was brought in to stop what they called 'holiday racers'. I personnaly believe there is no such thing. But what the licence does do is that it makes sure that those people riding around the TT course are regular riders. This for me, and which is the major point, is a safety issue.

If you have, say me for instance, and I ride three times a year and one of those times is the TT, the other two are just club days, well after a while I will loose the skills needed to race a TT bike, with the current increase in speeds, now upto and over 200mph. I don't think anyone out there could really disagree with that. Just think about your last lay off and then remember how hard it was to get back upto speed. OK yes I can conceed that the people this licence is aimed at will not be doing anywhere near 200mph, but I still think that it is a risk that could be negated, and has been done by the use of the TT course licence.

Let me put it another way. I race three times a year as normal, come to the TT with a new bike, yes I have re motgaged my house and got a brand new machine. Spent the past 6 months getting it together up to spec. Go out and kill myself at the bottom of Bray Hill. A news paper picks up on my tragic accident, and starts to look into my past histrory of racing to put something together. They then realise that I have only raced three times in the last year and have done that for the last 3 years.

So what do you think they would concentrate on? Would it be

a) My racing history and put together a tribute
b) Pick up that I haven't raced alot and blamed me for killing myself and leaving my family with huge debts.
c) Pick up on the fact I have only raced 6 times in the last three years, got some dodgy bloke to ask why allow someone with that lack of experience out there in the first place on the most dangerous course in the world (you know they will put that or Island of Death). The Organisers are then asked why did they not perform 'Duty of Care'. The family bring a case against the TT organisers to cover the Morgage I have taken out.
d) All of the above

So you see I think it is a safety issue and also its a way that the organisers can state that they have performed a duty of care.

So does that help? This is only my thoughts on it and I have no idea whether its right. But can see how it helps protect the future of the TT and its reputation as the best motorcycle race in the world. Yes I do know that I could still go down Bray and this could all still happen, but at least I would have the experiance on the bike to back up my entry.


Now let the slating begin .........

DCLUCIE Wrote:I know I am going to get slated for this, but what the heck, has never put me off before.

I think the licence is really a good thing. I think it has done its job as well. I think that the licence was brought in to stop what they called 'holiday racers'. I personnaly believe there is no such thing. But what the licence does do is that it makes sure that those people riding around the TT course are regular riders. This for me, and which is the major point, is a safety issue.

If you have, say me for instance, and I ride three times a year and one of those times is the TT, the other two are just club days, well after a while I will loose the skills needed to race a TT bike, with the current increase in speeds, now upto and over 200mph. I don't think anyone out there could really disagree with that. Just think about your last lay off and then remember how hard it was to get back upto speed. OK yes I can conceed that the people this licence is aimed at will not be doing anywhere near 200mph, but I still think that it is a risk that could be negated, and has been done by the use of the TT course licence.

Let me put it another way. I race three times a year as normal, come to the TT with a new bike, yes I have re motgaged my house and got a brand new machine. Spent the past 6 months getting it together up to spec. Go out and kill myself at the bottom of Bray Hill. A news paper picks up on my tragic accident, and starts to look into my past histrory of racing to put something together. They then realise that I have only raced three times in the last year and have done that for the last 3 years.

So what do you think they would concentrate on? Would it be

a) My racing history and put together a tribute
b) Pick up that I haven't raced alot and blamed me for killing myself and leaving my family with huge debts.
c) Pick up on the fact I have only raced 6 times in the last three years, got some dodgy bloke to ask why allow someone with that lack of experience out there in the first place on the most dangerous course in the world (you know they will put that or Island of Death). The Organisers are then asked why did they not perform 'Duty of Care'. The family bring a case against the TT organisers to cover the Morgage I have taken out.
d) All of the above

So you see I think it is a safety issue and also its a way that the organisers can state that they have performed a duty of care.

So does that help? This is only my thoughts on it and I have no idea whether its right. But can see how it helps protect the future of the TT and its reputation as the best motorcycle race in the world. Yes I do know that I could still go down Bray and this could all still happen, but at least I would have the experiance on the bike to back up my entry.


Now let the slating begin .........

I don't think there should be any slating, that was a very well thought out answer and I agree with every word of it.

Please note I have to qualify for the Mountain Course Licence and I don't mind so why do we have posts by people who don't have to qualify for one whinging about it?

So the early road closures are no more but as for the early morning sessions, the jury's still out. Personally I won't be happy, on holiday, getting up at 4am for TTXGP.

Sounds louder then I expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3FC7TIdwWs

highlander Wrote:Sounds louder then I expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3FC7TIdwWs

It has recently been reported in my local paper that
Lotus Engineering have been working on development of a sound system for electric vehicles which would replicate a throttle operated sound system. This is in response to the dangers that an electric vehicles silence present.
I wonder if Peter Williams is involved as I believe he has an involvement with an electric bike entry and connections to Lotus Engineering.

Alison Wrote:So the early road closures are no more but as for the early morning sessions, the jury's still out. Personally I won't be happy, on holiday, getting up at 4am for TTXGP.

Morning practice is *awesome*!!

I really miss it, both as a marshal and as a rider.

Me too Keith ............me too.

I've stayed out of this thread so far, but watched it with interest. As an engineer by profession (no, not a mechanic or technician, a Chartered Engineer) I find the thought of electric bikes capable enough to do the TT course interesting, and an exciting prospect for the future (notwithstanding concerns over lithium supplies).

My comments to date:

1. I agree 100% with Peter Courtney about the Course Licence, and speak as someone who it personally affects. Recent club race experience is largely irrelevant as you could spend 6 races wobbling round the chicanes at Mallory. You'd learn more doing 6 trackdays at different circuits but the ACU don't make money on the entries to those. Riders already need national or international licences and before the Course Licence had to provide proof of recency on the entry form, one qualification for some riders being many top-ten IoM positions in past years despite no short circuits done! It's expensive and irrelevant, does nothing for safety even if it is a sop to the insurers. However this isn't really the thread for discussing this, it's all been said before. If TTXGP riders can get away without needing a course licence but fulfilling the requirements for a current national or international racing licence then good luck to them.

2. I can't believe the negativity being shown by some on here, to the event and to Alison who tried to explain what they were trying to do. Yes, it's untried technology and there is a fairly small initial takeup. What else would you expect? The first riders in 1907 would have been pretty unsure if they were going to make it full race distance or achieve any remarkable speeds. Let's try and remember it's the TOURIST Trophy and was initially run to prove fuel economy. I can understand what Alison said that the major stage provided by the TT was essential to create sufficient interest from the teams, and it's a stage on which they will stand or fall. I don't think they need people setting them up to fail before they've even seen one of the machines.

3. Loud pipes do not save lives and these, as silent bikes, will be no more or less dangerous to pedestrians than IC-engined ones. Early problems with electric cells will be gradually overcome, as they were with early IC engines.

4. The growing reaction from "Islanders" to the practice times is the most worrying thing to me. I say "Islanders" because I can't help but suspect many of those whingeing about not being able to get little Tarquin to the childminders on time may be come-overs. The Manx folk used to have the TT in their blood and while I can understand a degree of frustration about traffic congestion the extend of moaning is ludicrous and speaks of the financial industries having replaced the racing not only in the Island's pockets, but in its soul. Which is a sad state of affairs. As some have suggested the answer to more practice time is morning practice but no doubt there would be an equal number of whingers opposed to that too. Only one reply to that sad stream of self-pity in the newspaper article made sense to me, and this is it:

"I have no problem with it and I live on the inside of the circuit, but work on the outside in Douglas. so I will probably go to the gym, or sit on the prom and read a book and enjoy a break from everything and if I need to get home I'll have a nice walk home, or I'll use my push bike. If you really need to get home on time, then why not come to work earlier so you can leave earlier or work through your lunch hour, I'm sure employers would understand, especially as they're in the same position. As for what happened last year during the Grand Prix – I would like to point out that the backlogs and traffic jams started at about 3:30 – 4:00ish, I know cause that's when Athol Street got gridlocked, which was well before the so called rush hour. If you don't want to be gridlocked take a holiday and stay at home, or get off the island for a week or two, plenty of options to choose from. People could also car share or use the bus and train (if its runs again this year), less cars on the road equals less chance of a grid lock. As for Phil's comment on CO2 emissions from cars stuck in traffic, ever heard of turning the engine off when you're not moving?? As for morning practices, well most of them were usually delayed or cancelled due to fog on the mountain circuit, hence why they were scrapped. I'm Manx, but sorry, stop you moaning, the amount of moaning going on about this, among other things is ridiculous, no wonder we get bad press. It's a world first, a record breaker, so instead of moaning we should be getting behind it this year, and then get better planning in place for the year after that and so on.
TIM K "

Hi Tomcat, I would disagree with no 3. I know a few marshals who have been made aware of the oncoming bikes just basically because of the noise they made. This has on a few occasions even saved their lives. Being aware of the surroundings and what is happening is an important part of being a marshal. I agree it has never saved a rider, but I bet it has saved a few marshals. I think that is why there is so much about the amount of noise they make, or don't marshals count?

TTxGP machines MUST have a horn fitted..................it's in the regs

DCLUCIE Wrote:Hi Tomcat, I would disagree with no 3. I know a few marshals who have been made aware of the oncoming bikes just basically because of the noise they made. This has on a few occasions even saved their lives. Being aware of the surroundings and what is happening is an important part of being a marshal. I agree it has never saved a rider, but I bet it has saved a few marshals. I think that is why there is so much about the amount of noise they make, or don't marshals count?

A touch harsh there chap. Of course marshals count, very much so. I was more referring to the popular myth put about by street riders in a lame attempt to justify using race pipes on the road when they are in fact doing nothing more than stoking their own egos.

I can see where you're coming from about the advance warning you can get of an approaching machine on an otherwise-quiet circuit, but I'd suggest it's rather foolhardy for anyone to rely on that if you are walking on a live track.

Arr sorry there Tomcat if I came over a little harsh. Didn't mean it that way, but as sometimes happens, its read a little different than its ment. My apologies.

I believe also that they are going to have to acknowlage a flag signal by a 'toot' of their horn to confirm that they have seen it. Marshals have also asked to use thei whistles to warn of the approaching TTxGP machines.

Totally agree with the young lad upping the pipes on their bikes to make them sound great. I have to admitt that I fell into that catagory when I had my first LC. Also change the carbs to open Muk's and that also made a lovey change to the note. I remember asking my old friend Steve Moynihan to have a look to see if he could make it quicker. Never had the courage to ask him if I could lend one of his TZ motors though to put into it although it crossed my mind on a few occasions. lol

Apologies again Tomcat.

DCLUCIE Wrote:Arr sorry there Tomcat if I came over a little harsh. Didn't mean it that way, but as sometimes happens, its read a little different than its ment. My apologies.

I believe also that they are going to have to acknowlage a flag signal by a 'toot' of their horn to confirm that they have seen it. Marshals have also asked to use thei whistles to warn of the approaching TTxGP machines.

Totally agree with the young lad upping the pipes on their bikes to make them sound great. I have to admitt that I fell into that catagory when I had my first LC. Also change the carbs to open Muk's and that also made a lovey change to the note. I remember asking my old friend Steve Moynihan to have a look to see if he could make it quicker. Never had the courage to ask him if I could lend one of his TZ motors though to put into it although it crossed my mind on a few occasions. lol

Apologies again Tomcat.

No worries mate.

Here's a thought though, how will the electric machines cope if it's wet on race day?

I would have thought it impossible to have a short-circuit on the Mountain Course!