I have SPLIT this thread as it was wandering away from the initial subject matter - Eddie Nelson.

Malcolm.

pat slinn Wrote:

George Wrote:Eddy do us all a favour
and GO HOME.

You obviously have a problem George, your attitude and language is unacceptable, and personaly I think you should apologize to Eddie Nelson. I feel that Eddie did a very good job last week, and I am not the only person to think that.

Hell can freeze over first, Eddie could have had the SB race on the Sunday, but did not. In his own words if it rains then the track has to have 24hrs to dry out, If that's so then why was the 600 race ran in the wet conditions. He should also take a look at his own rule book before disqualifying a rider ( Bud Jackson senior race). Why was the result given on 6 laps when most of the rider had only done five when the red flag went out?????. I would also like to hear what Hutchy has to say over the rule book, it cost him £10k

I'm not entirely certain of the circumstances of the red flag incident. But this I do know.....................

There are some very precisely writen rules regarding red flags and checkered flags and what result follows from such situations..........folks will remember the mistakes made at the Manx when some riders had already recieved the checkered flag when the rest of us got a red.................

The point is if (and it is a very big if) Eddie Nelson got it wrong then teams have the chance to go to the stewards of the meeting and plead their case. No one took that option.


I therefore suspect the the rules were properly applied.


On an entirely personal note....I don't much like the suggested language in this thread but for now it will remain...................

My ban finger is just itching to click.....................

cargo Wrote:I'm not entirely certain of the circumstances of the red flag incident. But this I do know.....................

There are some very precisely writen rules regarding red flags and checkered flags and what result follows from such situations..........folks will remember the mistakes made at the Manx when some riders had already recieved the checkered flag when the rest of us got a red.................

The point is if (and it is a very big if) Eddie Nelson got it wrong then teams have the chance to go to the stewards of the meeting and plead their case. No one took that option.

Sorry but this option was taken up.


I therefore suspect the the rules were properly applied.


On an entirely personal note....I don't much like the suggested language in this thread but for now it will remain...................

My ban finger is just itching to click.....................

Hutchy went down at the QB, take a look at the ITV review, no oil flags. He was not injured and no damage at all to the bike but was stoped by a marshal at a cost of £10k

Right my two pennorth on this matter,

The language used in the first posting by George is totally unacceptable on this forum and any repeat will result in deletion of the whole posting.

Whilst it is appreciated that you George have an opinion on this subject, and you are certainly free to express that opinion on the forum subject matter, I remimd you that you are required to express said opinion in a manner that is in-offensive and is acceptable under the T & C's of TTwebsite. The statement/language inferred that you have made in your first posting is NOT acceptable.

Your second posting is in no way relative to the subject matter and in my opinion should never have been made in this Forum section. If you wish to make a complaint or voice an opinion on the ability of people regarding the safety of the course, rider, machinery or whatever, relative to a particular action, then do so in an appropriate manner and posting and don't sneak it into a section where it will only instigate further antagonism.

Yes Hutchy did indeed go down at QB and did not/could not/would not continue.

Which one was it ? and if not his decsion, then whos' decision was it ?

If not his it must have been an official representative entrusted with making such a decision.

Are you attacking the marshals for preventing Hutchy resuming his participation in the race on safety grounds, or complaining that Hutchy lost £10k because of a decision based on safety ? It sounds to me that your complaint it is of a financial nature with disregard for safety, and that in itself is totally unacceptable.

Money has no value where someones life is concerned, and you George should know that better than anyone, if you are a business man who bears responsibility to authority for personnel who are employed by you.

I would suspect that an entrusted and responsible person made that decision for and on behalf of Hutchy and that he agreed. No one witnessed any tantrum from Hutchy, I am not aware of any complaint having been made by Hutchy or the team principal, however you George have taken that mantle upon yourself in this Forum.

I would suggest that your opinion on this matter is somewhat invalid and should never have been made in the manner in which it is publicly displayed on this forum. One for the pub and some friendly discussion on a warm sunny evening perhaps.

Eddie Nelson wasn't at QB to stop Hutchy, so why have the Marshals and Hutchy's stoppage been brought into a forum subject that is relative to the abilities of Eddie Nelson to fulfill the role that he has as COC ? I don't understand the logic of that at all.

The comments/statements made by hmc, The Bag and Cargo are enlightening to the discussion in hand, and display relevance to both sides of the issue under discussion. However those of the sort that you have made, are not.

If you have a sound and logical opinion to make regarding the ability and decision making of Eddy Nelson then of coure that opinion is worth listening to. If not, then don't hit that Post Now/Reply button.

Malcolm.

I didnt know Bud Jackson had been disqualified from Senior race, whats that all about?

I am glad I have managed to stimulate a little discussion on Mr Nelson.I was merely questioning what I saw as debateable decisions.I have heard from those in the know he is very good at delegating responsibilty to those who know what they are doing.

Anyway to clear up the Hurchy thing,any rider who crashes is not allowed tp proceed until they have been checked out by a doctor.This rule does not apply to Governors Bridge on the last lap only.

I had the gravest of misgivings when it was announced last year that the ACU were back in charge and Eddie Nelson was the new Clerk of the Course, but in all fairness I think he has done a good job over the past 2 years in often difficult circumstances. This seems to be the general consensus also. That's not to say that every decision has been right - I was at Laurel Bank on Wednesday and was surprised that the race started when it did as the roads were still wet there especially on the first lap. One thing is for sure about the job – you will never please everyone and you would be foolish to even try!

As far as Bud Jackson is concerned I have it on good authority that he - a) Wilfully ignored the red flag at the end of his 5th lap and carried on round again, and b) When he came round after the 6th lap he gave the 2 fingers to one of the marshals who had shown him the red flag. Either of these would be enough to justify disqualification; put together I wonder if they will affect any entry application he might make for the TT next year?

David Griffiths Wrote:I had the gravest of misgivings when it was announced last year that the ACU were back in charge and Eddie Nelson was the new Clerk of the Course, but in all fairness I think he has done a good job over the past 2 years in often difficult circumstances. This seems to be the general consensus also. That's not to say that every decision has been right - I was at Laurel Bank on Wednesday and was surprised that the race started when it did as the roads were still wet there especially on the first lap. One thing is for sure about the job – you will never please everyone and you would be foolish to even try!

As far as Bud Jackson is concerned I have it on good authority that he - a) Wilfully ignored the red flag at the end of his 5th lap and carried on round again, and b) When he came round after the 6th lap he gave the 2 fingers to one of the marshals who had shown him the red flag. Either of these would be enough to justify disqualification; put together I wonder if they will affect any entry application he might make for the TT next year?

Tell me if im wrong, but should it be that at least two yellow flags are displayed prior to the red in order for a rider to prepare to stop, and I have it also that the RED flag was only displayed after he had passed and that other riders too had gone past on the aledged Red Flag, Why was the result declayed as a 6 lap race if it was stopped on the start of the 5th???????????????????????????????????????

How would Bud be able to do a complete lap if it was red flaged, the incident of the aledged red flag was at the top of Bray hill on the start of his 5th lap.

The Senior was red-flagged after the leaders had completed their 6th laps - all riders who had been lapped should've stopped at the end of their 5th laps. According to the lap-by-lap results, there were 41 runners at the end of lap 5, of which 31 finished lap 6, so the majority completed the full race distance.

I'd heard that Hutchinson's rear brake pedal had snapped off, hence couldn't continue *shrugs*

A so the red flag was displayed after the leaders had already past the chequered flag then this is exactly the situation that arose in the Manx a couple of years ago the rules are quite clear on this and it would seem Eddie Nelson applied the rules exactly as they should be.

For those who doubt me and we all know who that will be here is it as copied for the ACU handbook


"Exception: if the race is interrupted after the chequered flag, the following procedure will apply:
4. For all the riders to whom the chequered flag was shown before the interruption, a partial classification will be established at the end of the last lap of the race.
5. For all the riders to whom the chequered flag was not shown before the interruption, a partial classification will be established at the end of the penultimate lap of the race.
6. The complete classification will be established by combining both partial classifications as per the lap/time procedure."




Well done Eddie Nelson

samwise Wrote:The Senior was red-flagged after the leaders had completed their 6th laps - all riders who had been lapped should've stopped at the end of their 5th laps. According to the lap-by-lap results, there were 41 runners at the end of lap 5, of which 31 finished lap 6, so the majority completed the full race distance.

So look at the lap by lap times yes 41 on lap 5 and only 31 completed lap 6, Bud was not the last man to finish, two others behind him on the road, but were not disqualified, If Bud passed a red flag others must have too, I have just been told that when the flag was put out He would not have seen it.
No disrespect to any of the marshalls in any way, but sometimes mistakes are made. They could have black flaged the rider if he had done any wrong as a matter of safety.

End of lap six
29 60 Alan Bud Jackson 1000cc Suzuki / BDS Fuels 19 23.38 116.753 01 57 13.09 115.876
30 45 David Madsen-Mygdal 1000cc Yamaha / CSC Branson Racing 19 13.06 117.797 01 57 19.03 115.778
31 59 Marc Fissette* 1000cc Yamaha / Macau Racing Team 19 20.87 117.005 01 57 22.29 115.725

I still do not fully understand all this.I have heard two reasons for the red flag being shown,both of them feasible,but I still don't see the reasoning for those riders who were red flagged,not being classed as finishers.As we all know,there will be an initial large gap between the first away and the back of the grid,thus creating almost half a lap difference between the fastest,first away,and the slower last away,making it almost impossible for the latter to go full distance without being lapped.It was not their choice to do 5 laps,so why were they not classed as finishers,and do they receive a finisher's award? If not,then something is wrong.

I don't know if the rules have changed but it used to be that the checkered flag would be displayed when it was no longer possible to win a replica and anyone still on their fifth lap would not be classed as a finisher.It seems as if a similar situation has developed over this red flag incident.Please correct me if I am wrong ( probably am).

Ive never heard of that, not all riders get a rep but all finishers get a finishers meda, which they deserve.

To be precise what I meant was that if you happened to be on your fifth lap you didn't get classed as a finisher,of course you could be on your sixth lap and therefore get a finish but if you weren't then it was considered that you did not complete the course,ie 6 laps, and did not finish the race.

I don't think this was the case. It was not that it was something to do with any form of replica. There were in fact two riders who rode past the red flag, one apologised and explained that previously he got the chequered flag and rode through and had his head down at the time. The other rider did not do this and also showed his 'frustration' by using sign language. I am sure that this would have an impact on the result of any slap on the wrist either rider was going to get.

One thing that is not mentioned on any post on this thread is the actual reason for the red flag being shown early. Does anyone know? or was it because of John's sad accident? If it was then I can see no reason for anyone moaning about how this was handled.

DCLUCIE Wrote:I don't think this was the case. It was not that it was something to do with any form of replica. There were in fact two riders who rode past the red flag, one apologised and explained that previously he got the chequered flag and rode through and had his head down at the time. The other rider did not do this and also showed his 'frustration' by using sign language. I am sure that this would have an impact on the result of any slap on the wrist either rider was going to get.

One thing that is not mentioned on any post on this thread is the actual reason for the red flag being shown early. Does anyone know? or was it because of John's sad accident? If it was then I can see no reason for anyone moaning about how this was handled.

The rider says that is total BS and produced independent witnesses to back him up, The COC even got the sex of the flag marshal wrong in his report?????????????????????

Oil at the QB which took Hutchy. Dunlop and almost Plater off

Did you keep away last weekend

I thought it said on the radio commentary, that the race was being stopped because it had started raining, which would make sense plus the situation at the QB, and also the sad accident involving John Crellin.

I was really replying to Hilarys post about why some people don't get classed as finshers,the red flag situation is obviously some what different.

I must comment that some years ago I was put in the unenviable position of having to back flag Buds brother whilst he was contesting the lead when his exhaust was loose but was contained by the fairing,he was allowed to proceed and I think he finished 3rd.Hoiwever the point of the tale is that the verbal abuse I got from Bud Jackson later on in the pits leads me to believe that gestures were quite likely to have been made.

Yes I too thought the race was shortened because of rain.

George Wrote:

DCLUCIE Wrote:I don't think this was the case. It was not that it was something to do with any form of replica. There were in fact two riders who rode past the red flag, one apologised and explained that previously he got the chequered flag and rode through and had his head down at the time. The other rider did not do this and also showed his 'frustration' by using sign language. I am sure that this would have an impact on the result of any slap on the wrist either rider was going to get.

One thing that is not mentioned on any post on this thread is the actual reason for the red flag being shown early. Does anyone know? or was it because of John's sad accident? If it was then I can see no reason for anyone moaning about how this was handled.

The rider says that is total BS and produced independent witnesses to back him up, The COC even got the sex of the flag marshal wrong in his report?????????????????????

Oil at the QB which took Hutchy. Dunlop and almost Plater off

Did you keep away last weekend

No not really George. But with all due respect Bud would say that, I know him well and I am sure that what he said was frustration at not getting the restult he thought he deserves. It must be hard as every replica, as we all know, is hard won and not as easy to get as people think. AS for the COC getting it wrong, I can not comment on what he was thinking, but it could just have been an honest mistake.