And who is going to fund 20 +teams and riders they have big problems getting sponsors to do what they do now

I think the idea is for teams and riders to benefit financially from the series and make their sponsorship deals more lucrative also. It opens up new sponsorship markets and opportunities, not just for the TT or Irish road meetings so it could become quite attractive to participate.

Without trying to sound patronising, for those of us that run and own our own business, and have to put our OWN Money on the line during the course of it, this is never going to fly.
The ONLY way for this to work is for some rich country to put up a stupid amount of money to run a round and cover the fees. How many countries fit that profile?

(05-12-2014, 06:41 PM)c iom tt Wrote: Without trying to sound patronising, for those of us that run and own our own business, and have to put our OWN Money on the line during the course of it, this is never going to fly.
The ONLY way for this to work is for some rich country to put up a stupid amount of money to run a round and cover the fees. How many countries fit that profile?

This is where I don't think the whole thing has been thought through properly at the start.  Governments get involved in the funding of hosting F1 events because of the perceived kudos in having it in their country (the UK is an exception) and new markets are generally dictated by the potential size of the TV audience.

Would an overseas governement fund a TT World series meeting?  I'm not sure about that, which leaves private enterprise.  A private investor is going to want to turn a profit after they've paid the DED.  As all the marketing of products, broadcasting etc usually drops into the bank account of the commercial rights holder, how are the hosts going to make money?

Going back to F1, the only revenue Silverstone are able to get from hosting the GP is gate receipts.  You only have to look at the Irish scene to see how difficult it is to get everyone to pay to watch a pure road race.

This will never happen, it's our so called government trying to get cash from anywhere they can think of to keep the overpaid few in jobs.u.g.p. northwest etc. Aren't Intrested because all it means is paying royalties for the T.T. logo.

(04-12-2014, 08:24 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: And who is going to fund 20 +teams and riders they have big problems getting sponsors to do what they do now

So a similar commitment to WBS say?

How do WBS and MotoGP teams pay their way?


Sam

(05-12-2014, 06:41 PM)c iom tt Wrote: Without trying to sound patronising, for those of us that run and own our own business, and have to put our OWN Money on the line during the course of it, this is never going to fly.
The ONLY way for this to work is for some rich country to put up a stupid amount of money to run a round and cover the fees. How many countries fit that profile?

few.. and they probably love camel races best...

Any move of this nature dilutes the importance of the TT races.

Kilbil

Something I posted on another forum...

In MotoGP the host pay's a flat fee to Dorna, usually around £3m I believe. The local government usually supports the host company as they are bringing in visitors and revenue.
The host works purely for the gate money, event sponsors money, stall and exhibition holders payments, programme sales plus any assistance in revenue from the government. From this they must staff the gate and look after the policing etc., plus pay for the hire of the circuit.
Dorna gets the TV rights, the host's fee and sponsorship money from series sponsors. They also take a series entry fee from each competing team.
In return, they bring a circus to town, completely organised and ready to go. They subsidise travel and help to fund teams including some of the lesser teams in return for a say in how these teams are run. They also subsidise travel costs etc.

MotoGP is struggling at this time, sponsors are thin on the ground and costs to teams are under scrutiny and pressure. This is why Dorna settled for a £4.5m deal to allow BT Sport to have sole rights to live TV coverage in the UK. This despite the serious lack of exposure this has caused, they needed the money. The last GP of the year had UK live viewing figures of 125,000 compared to 1,200,000 for the same event last year.

Substitute IOMG for Dorna and you get an idea of what they could be up against if they get it wrong. I think they should look at this and it has its merits, but I am in two minds as to whether they can make it work or not.
Being a road circuit, I imagine that the 'hire' cost would be less than a full motorsport complex and being a lesser championship than MotoGP, some of the costs will be an awful lot less all round. For example, machinery costs are a fraction of those in MotoGP and rider/team salaries much the same. As already mentioned, a lot depends on sponsors realising the value in the series.

Thanks for the reply - interesting stuff.

So in summary the busines model is that Dorna sell the right to hold rounds to local promoters who then profit by selling tickets and so forth (plus consequential benefits to the local economy).  Dorna then have rights to sell the TV coverage globally and hence profit again from the coverage.  I'm assuming that the contract with Dorna includes a guarantee of a minimum amount of TV exposure from which sponsors can gauge value.

Do you know if the teams are only funded externally (factories / sponsors) or do they get some assistance from Dorna?

There was a famous case here recently where a new Aussie rules fanchise (GWS) employed an interntaional Rugby League player as their star recruit (Israel Falau).  His AFL career was a technically a failure but they calculated that his 1.5M wages were off set by around 10M equivalent adevrtising publcilty.

My view is that the paragigm shft that we've seen is that the TV coverage has changed dramtically in the last few years and now they actually have a much more tangible product to promote.  


Cheers,


Sam

Yes, Dorna do support the teams financially providing they sign the riders they want to see in the series. If they have say a shortage of British talent, they can pressure a team to take a rider to boost TV ratings to keep the UK TV rights holder happy. BT in some ways have done Cal Crutchlow, Scott Redding and Bradley Smith a big favour by paying so much for the rights to screen in this country.
The hope for BT is that them being on top machinery will bring subscribers flocking in.

Bridgestone also provide free tyres for 22 of the riders. Any teams entering after that number have to find money for tyres also, a huge additional cost of entry.

(06-12-2014, 07:09 AM)Amste Wrote: few.. and they probably love camel races best...

There the ones!

So as a business model it could take on a number of possible formats but the expectation would be that the IOMG and/or other stakeholders would sell the rights to run the series to a company like dorna and they in turn would contract a number of top teams for a number of rounds in various locations for which they would look it sell TV rights globally?

Essentially analogous to WBS or MotoGP but probably a shorter series.

The value proposition from the study being that when these (real road) races are put into a cohesive series then they attract a great amount of media attention and hence increase in net worth (to sponsors and event owners/promoters alike) by the increased exposure and fan base?  Not rocket surgery.

Personally if they could rekindle something akin to the old F1 World Championship I'd be thrilled (notwithstanding many of the original circuits are no longer available).  

I'd also like to think that if it was properly promoted guys like John McGuiness would get the (financial) recognition that they deserve.

The TV coverage of the international road races this year was excellent and I can't help thinking it would be very successful if it got the right exposure.

Just out of interest anyone know what the average spend (addition to the Manx economy) per TT visitor is?

Cheers,


Sam

It was reported that the average spend of MGP visitors was £750 per head, I think TT visitors stay for a shorter period and spend around £550 per head?

Larger spend per head for the Manx over the TT?
First time I have heard that one.

When we come over for the TT we're there for 18 days and I figure we EACH spend around 1400-1700 pounds while on the Island (I tend to buy more souvenirs like signed commemorative helmets and books).  That includes lodging, car rental/insurance, petrol, food and drink, event/facility tickets and souvenirs.  That works out to between 77.78-94.44 pounds per day and I think that's reasonable for 18 days for an event like this.  It doesn't include plane fare to and from (add another 750 pounds for plane fare).

Where are the real roads races outside of the uk?, is there one held in the Czech Republic?. A road race on the original Nuremberg ring could make quite a spectacle, I'm not sure the surface would be up to it though, heard it's pretty bad in places. TT is popular with ze Germans though so they might like a road race at home.

The Germans already have one, at Frohburg and it's the final round of the International Road Racing Championship.  The 2015 dates are already established and can be found here: http://www.irrc.eu/

There is road racing in Eastern Europe, probably the best known being at Horice, which is also part of the championship. The biggest problem as far as riders we're familiar with competing in this series is that some of the rounds clash with the TT, UGP & MGP.

You can't help but wonder whether it wouldn't have been better to look at a mutually beneficial arrangement with this pre-existing championship.

(08-12-2014, 11:09 PM)sticky Wrote: The Germans already have one, at Frohburg and it's the final round of the International Road Racing Championship.  The 2015 dates are already established and can be found here: http://www.irrc.eu/

There is road racing in Eastern Europe, probably the best known being at Horice, which is also part of the championship.  The biggest problem as far as riders we're familiar with competing in this series is that some of the rounds clash with the TT, UGP & MGP.

You can't help but wonder whether it wouldn't have been better to look at a mutually beneficial arrangement with this pre-existing championship.

There are definitely other road races out there and I would assume that part of the task that the consultants are undertaking is to look at the size and status of these races and how plausible it would be to bring them into a new championship aligned with the TT.  I'd also like to think that they'll be getting some idea of how plausible to would be to re-energise some of the old races.  A September trip to Montjuic Park say, would a very nice way to round off a season.   I seem to recall that Assen was part of the F1 championship were there any other circuits that are still running (possibly in a revised format) that were in it?

I only take a passing interest in these things but it does seem that a number of cities are realising the commercial potential of holding a city roads based car race - many be they'll see the same potential for a bike race?

Anyone been to Horice or Froburg?  Are they anything like to UGP or more like Scarborough? Could they support / be part of a bigger event? 

Cheers


Sam

(03-12-2014, 09:35 PM)BenjiesDad Wrote: Playing catch up here,,

Great idea in principle,
Macau being a round,
The old Brisbane Circuit,
And the cemetery track in New Zealand, cant spell Wanngo nohee,,, Lol
Throw in the old Shah Alman circuit maybe whilst you are out that way,
Up into Central Europe,
Spa, Salzburg  ( Circuits that you need the mentality of a road racer )
Northwest 200,

There you go all sorted,
And it didnt cost !    The £121,878 has been spent on fees and expenses for The Sports Consultancy.

Or does it sound like the the good old days of the F1 championship ?
Great racing, on different circuits, but the road racers came on on top most of the times,,
Yet you will get newbies coming to the TT to pick up points,,
Does this sound like old ideas revisted ??

Just my thoughts  

Cemetery Curcuit in Wanganui.   :>)