(08-02-2015, 08:38 PM)Mugen Wrote: Polaris has just bought (or at least bought into) Brammo. Whether that makes them more, or less, likely to return to IOM I don't know. I would have thought (personal opinion) that if you want to sell road bikes to current bikers, where better to show your capabilities than on the mountain course?

Last year when I was waiting to get on the boat at Liverpool, the road going Brambo bike pulled up and parked next to me.
It attracted much attention, and again, like the Mugen, it looked like a well finished product.
I did have a little giggle to myself when after about 10 minutes, someone asked the rider if the headlamp stays on all the time?
The rider had forgoten to switch the 'ignition' key off when he stopped.
It did seem a bit of a design flaw on a battery powered bike when you would want to conserve as much energy as posible that the lights can not be switched off when in 'live' mode

(09-02-2015, 11:18 AM)sticky Wrote:

(09-02-2015, 11:11 AM)Alfie Noakes Wrote: How about letting a few made for closed circuit racing GP spec 250 two strokes in the 650 commuter bike race .. variety, interest, different sound and real little jewel racing bikes in the Lightweight - that would be novel wouldn't it.

I suggested that very thing when the Lightweight was resurrected.  The organisers didn't seem interested.  It'd give Mr McG a chance of a run out on an RS250 wouldn't it?

Also proposed by me on 'the dark side' at the inception of the supertwins. I suggested at the same time that the supertwins would be lapping in the 117/118 mph area.

I was roundly scoffed at and told 115 max and the 250's would run away with.

I refer you to the current supertwins lap record, no further questions m'lud.

I was just having a look at the Southern 100 2015 program and it says in there that there is a 6 lap Electric bike race , so are we to see Mugen and some more top Electric boys there there this time ?


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I don't think John & Bruce are to keen on the course, not sure but don't even think they have ever raced there.

You're right - they haven't.  John didn't race there when they tried the '250 TT' there a little while ago.  I do remember hearing the manx Radio feed from the NEC when those races were announced and John said if it was on the Mountain Course he'd move heaven & earth to put a bike on the grid.  Sadly he never got the chance.

The electrics won't have a stand alone race at the Southern but will be incorporated into the 125/400/450 singles race.  Something like the Mugen would run away with that but some of the others may be competitive (or not...)

Billown would always have been a better home for the TT Zero bikes but the politicians wouldn't hear of it.

Not sure the Mugens would run away on the Billown course, they are heavy and the circuit is a lot more stop/start than the TT course where they can hold high speeds over long stretches

Highly unlikely we would be racing anywhere else. The bike is produced solely for TT and once we are done that is that.
Historically within a week of getting back from the IoM the bikes and equipment have been on their way back to Japan. We will be trying to keep them here a little longer this year but even if we are successful in that I doubt any more racing will be on the cards.

That is sad and adds fuel to the anti brigade , when you don't bother to enter a race on the Island , I mean lets face it there aren't that many places for you to showcase your product , a product you want us to take seriously, but you are not prepared to put the commitment in to your selves , surely if you were serious about the concept you would grab any opportunity you could to show what you could do , or is it that you would have to run along side other bikes giving a real time comparison, that you are not ready for


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Thanks for cheering me up; I was having quite tough day, but when I read that we haven't shown any commitment to the programme that perked me up somewhat.

Oh dont worry about what I say , no one else does , I am just the sites resident Grump lol

but you have to admit that putting all your effort in to one high profile demonstration and ignoring all the other opportunities , does look to the non converted as a sign of lack of commitment , not just by Mugen but by the rest of your industry for they aren't even showing up to the high profile event , and the rest of your industry is what is making your job so difficult to justify sorry and all that but a fact of life as I see it


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Eddy, in fairness to Mugen, and others in the Zero race, they are not trying to showcase ther products, as they dont have any products to sell. ( execpt maybe for Brammo)
This is more of a 'willy waving' exercise on Mugens part of what they can do from a technical perspective.
The merits of if the TT is the correct place to do it is another matter, but if we are going to have a 'pretend green' race, then I would rather see a grid full of Mugen type quality bikes than some of the lash ups that we have seen so far.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I would have said.
We are not here to convert everyone, TT Zero is an opportunity for us to learn how to work with and develop new technologies, which in turn will provide us with more valuable tools for our core business of global motorsport going forward (already is paying off in some of our other programmes).
The other thing to bear in mind is that even though the company name of Mugen does translate to "Infinite" we don't have infinite resources, physical or financial. Everyone on our team has other projects to work on and the logistics of our TT programme has to be planned down to the last detail months in advance as most of our personnel usually have to come over straight from one race event do the TT and fly back to go straight to another one somewhere else.
Plus as c iom tt says we don't have a product that we need to sell; it is all about internal personal/personnel development, and TT Zero is a good constant for us to measure ourselves against.
The only other agenda we have is to maybe set a small piece of historical legacy with the Mugen brand at IoM for the future generations who will almost certainly be fully au fait with electric vehicles.

Well if they aren't trying to showcase Electric bike propulsion , what are they doing ??

On second thoughts  yes you're right ! they don't have a product do they ,they  only have a concept , mmm , now I am all confused

Why on earth are they spending so much money on a concept that has no merit ?? in it's Zero emission ambition  ,

Well normally when you ask such questions the answer is money , so begs the question who is paying what to who ??
The other one lap demonstration , the Subaru Lap , brings in a six figure sum ,  so what does the Zero Lap bring in ??



Be careful when making such comments  - "What to who etc" please, as this could be construed in a court of law as being potentially libelous.

Malcolm

I'm guessing that they must be given a wedge of IOM Government money to do the TT, and any other appearances would need to be funded out of their own pocket maybe?

Eddy, why are you confused? I thought my post with the reasons why we are doing the programme was pretty clear.

Also, this is the 3rd time within this particular thread you have tried to link the Subaru commercial lap, with the TT Zero and you seem to be trying to imply that there is something underhand going on with regards to payments etc. Up to now I have ignored it but you keep returning with the insinuations and if you are trying to infer something about our company and team in this regard it is something we would take very seriously. So please if you have something to say on this subject lets get it out in the open and put the matter to rest.

Sorry Malcolm but to be libelous as I understand the law for some thing to be libelous you need to be presenting  an untruth , I was not ! I was asking a question , , but I willingly take on board your concerns

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Eddy, I wrote "Potentially" and that is exactly how it could be viewed. A decision on any potential resultant action would be for the "defamed" to make.

Definition of libel being - a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

Again I state - A decision on any potential resultant action would be for the "defamed" to make.

Therefore, please ensure that any postings/comments that you make on here are NOT contentious with regards to what could result in any potential libel action.

It is stated in various locations around these Forums that TTwebsite will not be held responsible for any actions that may be taken against anyone for making what could be a contentious/libelous posting, and that whatever content any individual makes within their postings, is the opinion of that individual and not necessarily that of TTwebsite.com


I have had to modify/delete a few postings on here in the past couple of months that in my opinion could be construed as libelous, so I ask all of you to think before you hit that "Post" button.


I am simply protecting my Website & Forums.


Malcolm

(11-02-2015, 06:22 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: Well if they aren't trying to showcase Electric bike propulsion , what are they doing ??

On second thoughts  yes you're right ! they don't have a product do they ,they  only have a concept , mmm , now I am all confused

Why on earth are they spending so much money on a concept that has no merit ?? in it's Zero emission ambition  ,

Well normally when you ask such questions the answer is money , so begs the question who is paying what to who ??
The other one lap demonstration , the Subaru Lap , brings in a six figure sum ,  so what does the Zero Lap bring in ??



Be careful when making such comments  - "What to who etc" please, as this could be construed in a court of law as being potentially libelous.

Malcolm

Eddy, it is there money, and they can spend it anyway they please. They are developing electric vehicle technology ( flawed in my opinion, unless they are designing/testing/evaluating there own electric motors). They have been given a platform on which to do this by the IOM Goverment ( again flawed in my opinion on the green issue). The Goverment think the Zero TT brings in kudos, ( again flawed in ... oh it doesnt mater)
The only thing that the Subaru lap and the Zero TT have in commen, is a lot of people dont want to see them at the TT, but the problem with that analogy is there is also a lot of people who do want to see them at the TT.

The two fastest blokes round the TT course, in a race, on identical bikes?
What more can you ask?



(ok, maybe a few more in the race!)

I 100% defend anybody's right to have a different opinion, and 5 years ago, after 20 years in this motorsport business and having never even considered anything other than petrol-engined vehicles, I would probably have joined the anti brigade.
Since then I have seen diesels come in and be unbeatable (at Le Mans), and now I am seeing on a daily basis how vital electric energy is to top level motorsport (bearing in mind the new Honda F1 engine is being tested in the same building), so I have a different viewpoint than I might possibly have had if I hadn't been so close to some of those major changes.
As I say, I applaud peoples differing opinions, but if anybody is genuinely interested in what we are doing in TT Zero I am more than happy to attempt to answer any questions anybody may put to me, and if I can't answer (for whatever reason) I will say so. There is no hidden agenda (although sometimes there might be some details we would prefer to keep to ourselves).

The two fastest blokes round the TT course, in a race, on identical bikes?
What more can you ask?I did hear it suggested before the race that we might engineer the result, or send the bikes out with different set-ups, but I can state they were totally equal. It will be the same again this year I would expect

(ok, maybe a few more in the race!)
Well, if the rumours are true this may well be the case. And if so, we could well have a scrap on our hands