To be honest I can't see anything wrong with old system the fast lads ie, mcpint, Martin and all the others so I believe can ask for early start numbers anyway before the programme is printed or the other way give everybody a note book and we can write who's riding where when they tell us in 1957 bob mac won the senior from start number 78 ,this year I just gave up ,£15 for a programme to scribble on to me is not on!

you could switch to a 4 figure number syatem first 2 start number then race number but its hard enough seeing 2 digits in some places
whatever they do it wont please all but theres more shouts for old system than the new
but some dont like change do we

(28-06-2015, 12:41 PM)Andy from Kazakhstan Wrote: Strange, I went back on Friday and was told that they still hadn't received any more stock.

Post 43 said they got theirs on Friday?

(28-06-2015, 01:30 PM)scaramanga Wrote: there is arguments for both sides
every other race in the world is mass start and outright race between riders the tt as you will be aware is run to the time keepers clock so that is why if run in rider numerical order people would know who is doing what if rider 21 is infront of rider 18 hes made up 30 secs simples aint it

Not necessarily so it could be that 20 has retired and 18 and 19 have been having problems and 21 is only riding to his expected times and has gained nothing on the timesheet and has gained nothing on bikes 16 and 17 in fact because he has been held up he is losing ground on 16 and 17   , meanwhile you think you know whats going on , sorry but the reality is you only think you know you don't really know , and seeing as how you missed the rider number changes 21 isn't who you thought it was , he is number 35 , so you know even less than you thought you did , 

so to me either stick with what we have , or stick to the seeding numbers and if they have got it wrong so what according to you lot there is no problem having  riders do a bit of overtaking just tell that held up rider to man up and get on with it , you knew it was going to be dangerous if you can't stand the heat get out of the fire , you wanted danger well you have got a bit of extra 

Just talking nonsense there Edward.

I was thinking exactly the same.

as i said theres arguments for both sides
ive been on forums long enough to know you can be stuborn with you view edward but i also know you do have some good points/views but on this 1 i have to disagree with you

well someone must have thought it wasn't nonsense , wonder who that was ACU DED , with the speeds of the bikes these days and riders like Chris Palmer saying that the big 1000cc bikes are too fast for the Island they have to do everything they can to minimize the risks or if a corner says they were neglectful and did not do everything they could they would get shut down end of , they do constant risk assessments of all aspects of running the TT and I assume that in one of their meetings they decided that the safety would be enhanced if they brought out the new system , so I don't think it can be all nonsense , the riders safety MUST come first , and well before you THINKING you know , when you don't at all , but we have been through this a load of times and as yet not one of you  has come up with any substantial reason for putting what a spectator thinks over the safety of a rider , it boils down to priorities , and for me what a spectator misguidedly thinks he knows should NOT come before the riders safety , call it nonsense if you like , but it's a nonsense backed  by common sense like it or not  , there are other ways of achieving that safety aspect cut the laps from six to three , it would still be a longer race than most short circuit races , run it in two legs with half the riders in each leg , come up with alternatives when you get your heads out of the sand , we have to move with the times or become extinct 

Ok lets keep this as a discussion and not turn it into an argument thanks

Well who would have thought that I would get reprimanded for standing up for the establishment ME after all the times I have pulled them to bit's over the years , sorry Moderator 2 if you feel I over stepped the mark , but I am not one for biting my tongue especially when I feel that all I posted was true and in line with the establishment , I will step back and sit on the side lines for I am not sure I can bite my tongue that much but will try

I have just had a blast of Deja vu with the last few posts!

Ha ha ha can't tha translate that there yonder in ti Yarkshire  lad , lol behave I have gone

(29-06-2015, 10:30 AM)Steady the Edward Wrote: Well who would have thought that I would get reprimanded for standing up for the establishment ME after all the times I have pulled them to bit's over the years , sorry Moderator 2 if you feel I over stepped the mark , but I am not one for biting my tongue especially when I feel that all I posted was true and in line with the establishment , I will step back and sit on the side lines for I am not sure I can bite my tongue that much but will try

The note wasn't aimed entirely at you Eddie, lively debate is fine, and everyone has views and opinions, your knowledge and input is appreciated, but bearing in mind the events of the past couple of weeks we just need to stay on-topic and keep things from degenerating into online arguments which is where this thread in general looked to be going.

Can't see any point in going over the start number business again.  Nobody wants it (except Eddy, who I may previously have pointed out, gives lessons in stubborness to mules ) but as the 'establishment seem to want it, I guess we're stuck with it.

I will say this though:  When a potentially unpopular change is made, the reason given is usually 'safety' knowing that someone will bite on it.  It should be borne in mind that these guys race against eachother wheel to wheel on the Irish roads and most pertinently four abreast flat out at the NW200 and UGP.  They're used to it and can deal with it.  My 2p worth...

exactly
great post sticky
also macau which is proberbly the only other race that could be classed as unforgiving as the tt when all goes wrong
i do fully understand the program collectors side of the issue but anyone can print a page out after the meeting if they like to adjust numbers and other info if they like

Years ago, the Senior page in the race guide was always blank, you had to go and pick up a start list on the day before to see who was running and where.
If it aint broke, dont try and fix it!

well would you not think that with eminent people like Chris Palmer saying that the big bikes are getting too fast for the Island and our very own Splashdown saying newcomers should be restricted to smaller bikes ( I assume on the grounds that the big bikes are too fast for them , there for on the grounds of safety restrict them , so there must be some concerns needing to be addressed )  is there some credence then  to the desire to grab at any thing that may provide even the smallest minute fraction of safety , and saying that they know what they are doing and that they are good riders used to it , I do not buy , there are fare too many in wheel chairs and sent home in body bags to use that argument sorry to be blunt , but it is a fact of life

Not a change as such, we have sector times but in those sector times we don't really know how or where the time is gained - If it's at all possible tech wise I'd like to see more virtual/telemetry/video information from the bikes like they do with the WRC and F1 - they lay the info over each other on a screen for a small section of the course and it shows the lines taken, the approach, entry, mid and corner exit speeds. If it were possible you could have the various quickest ever sector times as a ghost/shadow rider showing where the time was made up or lost compared to another rider of choice through the same sector.

only ever happen if all were using gps trackers

Ed, I've got a lot of time for your enthusiasm and marshalling but how can you honestly say you don't buy that the riders are used to and experienced/comfortable with their bikes ? really mate - what's that comment based on ?. You think we just go buy a bike, jump on the boat and rock up on Glencrutchery Rd ?? because that's what it sounds like and to be honest it's not particularly respectful, it's a very selfish sport at times but it's always been our choice to make, once your sat on your machine nothing else matters. What would happen also if the newcomers have accidents on supposedly safer/slower bikes ?? what then ??. I'm sure you're aware of what Mick Grant said many many years ago about a pot and weeing ... Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.