I think that Honda is making people nervous. You can say what you will about Guy ( I happen to be one of the people that pull for him), but he's never been one for nerves.

From what I've read, the bike went into neutral on a downshift coming into the corner. He has to have in the back of his mind how the bike tossed John and now him. I am not sure this new Fireblade is TT ready yet, to be honest. I sure do want to see Guy race and I'm glad he's back, but the way this Honda story has played out this year seems to say this bike is still not in shape for the course.

Yep - clearly in shock.

I'm reasonably certain that where he stepped off is where the plaque to the memory of Phil Mellor is on the wall.  If that doesn't bring a stark reality to what just happened I don't know what would.   Very lucky boy (and he knows it).

I just read something attributed to Johnny Twelvetrees about being ready for Friday.  Hopefully it was written before the Superbike race.

Sam

(05-06-2017, 03:25 AM)KypDurron Wrote: I think that Honda is making people nervous.  You can say what you will about Guy ( I happen to be one of the people that pull for him), but he's never been one for nerves.  

From what I've read, the bike went into neutral on a downshift coming into the corner.  He has to have in the back of his mind how the bike tossed John and now him.  I am not sure this new Fireblade is TT ready yet, to be honest.  I sure do want to see Guy race and I'm glad he's back, but the way this Honda story has played out this year seems to say this bike is still not in shape for the course.

There was onboard footage on the ITV highlights last night. He did end up in neutral, although the commentary team were speculating it could be rider error. I doubt it. He is too experienced to make that mistake, and the gearbox should not be susceptible to false neutrals. Once he was in neutral is was game over. Lucky boy.

Interesting that he referred to it as a 'Jonah' of a bike bike, and stated it didn't like him or McGuinness. He was unusually sedate. Not like Honda to get this so wrong.

You're correct Sam, that was my thoughts too, it's bonkers fast through there ... a very fast approach, come back one then hard drive on the power through to keep her in tight ... without any engine braking the whole weight of rider/machine "leaps" forward covering considerable distance at that speed, if you brake the bike will stand up immediately and with no drive either you're hoping / praying the fickle finger of fate is pointing elsewhere. I think Guy did very well to get as far as he did around the corner basically on a very fast moving free wheeling deadweight. I've seen Guy's 1000yd stare / expression before where fate has been kind .. good luck and much respect to him.

The very first thing that came to my mind when Doran's was mentioned was Phil Mellor

1989, I remember it as if it was yesterday.

Guy rightly looks even more broken than Cam did having to ride the Norton, falling off at Dorans and walking away is very very rare. Either this was pilot error or mechanical failure, the smart money is obviously on the Honda but you still have to question letting him race without a mountain licence, over the last 2 years since his ulster crash he has be noticeably under the weather and not competitive even on the 600.  I think theres a good argument for a Macau type rule, if you have a big crash on a big corner (i don't mean slipping off at governors) you should be sent home even if un-injurred, when you have a massive spill your head is not really on the job for some time and you don't realise this, if you come back next year and do it again you should refused any further entries - not many of the top TT racers have had even one big off on the Island. I had a massive car smash at Donnington one year and was back out 5 days later, looking back I was out of it for months afterwards and did some random things

I don't think I've ever seen Guy so affected by an off as he was last night. As others have already stated, he was extremely fortunate to walk away from that and evidently did an exceptional job of minimising what could well have been a massive impact to his body. In its present state, the new SP-2 is clearly not ready for the demands of the TT & Guy's confidence in it has visibly hit a new low. What with JM's big impact at the North West', I personally think the team should pull it from the Senior now & get the thing properly sorted before even more serious incidents occur this week. I appreciate Jonny Twelvetrees is employed to make a success of the Honda Racing Team, but there surely must come a point where he puts the welfare of his rider(s) above the demands of his employers?

Seeing Guy crash at Dorans brought Phil's crash back to me too. He is incredibly lucky.
However, I do NOT think that one big crash should be the end of your Island racing as suggested.
Hailwood crashed on the Saturday morning of the day he won the Formula One in 1978.
Steve Hislop had a HUGE crash at Quarry Bends, and went on to win the same week. McCallen crashed at Bungalow and finished runner up later in the week. Even Joey slipped off, admittedly it was only Sulby Bridge. Can still hurt though. William Dunlop has been off at the Les Graham Memorial, and Gary Johnson has had two fairly big crashes, above Ramsey Hairpin, and at Guthrie's.
I had a big "off" at Lambfell in 1990, but came back and won the Formula One three years later. We are racers, crashes DO happen.
However, there must be questions asked about Guy's Mountain Course licence validity. I wasn't aware they were still able to make allowances as they have in the past.

I never raced the roads and so cannot comment on how crashes at the TT affect the mind, but on the short circuits I found that as I gained experienced of parting company with the bike it affected me less. As Splashdown stated racers crash. I remember an experienced road rider and occasional track day rider telling me the difference between me and him was that I accepted that I would crash.

What I read into the Guy interview was not a lack of confidence in himself, but certainly in the bike. Whilst the reasons for the crashes (JM130 and Guy) appear to be different, I certainly would not want to be setting off on it. Guy's times, whilst partly indicative no doubt of his absence last year and limited testing, tell me that the bike is nowhere near. His pre-race interview also stated that. Honda must be in a right old spin. Wanting to have the publicity for the new Blade, but knowing that Guy would be likely to say it how it is rather than tow the corporate line.

At least, judging by yesterday's race, the battle at the front is still intense and involves more than just Hutchy and MD.

I've never raced at the IOM but I have raced and I have hit a false neutral entering a corner at racing speeds and as above you basically have to stand the bike up and go straight on.  How Guy must have felt when alll of a sudden he was running out of road at those sort of speeds I can only imagine - it wasn't a case of losing the front and in an instant its all happening - this crash would have seemed like a lifetime.  So no wonder he's looking a bit phased - I bet it's replaying in his mind every time he sits down.

I'm guessing on those bikes its a change from 5th back to 4th - and there shouldn't be a neutral - maybe in an ancient gear box but not in the best factory kit.  So I'm not buying into the Steve Plater (ex and possibly still? Honda employee) saying possible rider error.  I'm also not buying the 'Guy's a crasher and should be banned' line - he's had a mechanical failure - its a racing incident - its not attributable to the rider.

I often wondered how many of the serious crashes at the TT are attributable to false neutrals.  I remember Phil MacCallen tipping off at Tower bends one year when he hit a false neutral on his 600.  Don't recall anyone suggesting that he should stop the TT.

Something Steve Plater did say was that it was a very different issue to the one McGuiness had - so reading between the lines there was an acknowledged fault that caused Johns NW crash. Anyone know anything?

The other issue raised is about Guys mountain license. Given the amount of testing Honda have been doing - I think it'd be fair to say that he will have done vastly more laps at race speed than required for the mountain license.  Suggesting that he shouldn't be out there is just being pedantic IMO - he's not the sort of holiday racer that it was implemented for. 

Anyhoo - its been a bit of a distraction from an otherwise entertaining race.  I watched the footage today - thought Hutchys bike looked like it was shaking its head a fair bit - maybe why he didn't dominate?  MD was really charging - he'd have walked it if he'd kept going I reckon.

Cheers

Sam

(05-06-2017, 11:49 AM)Sam Pato Wrote: I've never raced at the IOM but I have raced and I have hit a false neutral entering a corner at racing speeds and as above you basically have to stand the bike up and go straight on.  How Guy must have felt when alll of a sudden he was running out of road at those sort of speeds I can only imagine - it wasn't a case of losing the front and in an instant its all happening - this crash would have seemed like a lifetime.  So no wonder he's looking a bit phased - I bet it's replaying in his mind every time he sits down.

I'm guessing on those bikes its a change from 5th back to 4th - and there shouldn't be a neutral - maybe in an ancient gear box but not in the best factory kit.  So I'm not buying into the Steve Plater (ex and possibly still? Honda employee) saying possible rider error.  I'm also not buying the 'Guy's a crasher and should be banned' line - he's had a mechanical failure - its a racing incident - its not attributable to the rider.

I often wondered how many of the serious crashes at the TT are attributable to false neutrals.  I remember Phil MacCallen tipping off at Tower bends one year when he hit a false neutral on his 600.  Don't recall anyone suggesting that he should stop the TT.

Something Steve Plater did say was that it was a very different issue to the one McGuiness had - so reading between the lines there was an acknowledged fault that caused Johns NW crash. Anyone know anything?

The other issue raised is about Guys mountain license. Given the amount of testing Honda have been doing - I think it'd be fair to say that he will have done vastly more laps at race speed than required for the mountain license.  Suggesting that he shouldn't be out there is just being pedantic IMO - he's not the sort of holiday racer that it was implemented for. 

Anyhoo - its been a bit of a distraction from an otherwise entertaining race.  I watched the footage today - thought Hutchys bike looked like it was shaking its head a fair bit - maybe why he didn't dominate?  MD was really charging - he'd have walked it if he'd kept going I reckon.

Cheers

Sam

The paddock gossip, and no more than that, was that JM130's throttle stuck open. 'Stuck' being a misnomer given it's fly by wire.

It looks like Guy's up for today's Supersport race, so he certainly ain't lacking in 'minerals' after yesterday's SP-2 shenanigans. Fair play.

Hi splashdown i bow to your superior experience and I accept that there have been riders who have crashed and then got a good result later , I'm not suggesting that one off should end a career but if you've baled out in one of the scary places and walked away there should be careful thought given to allowing you back out too soon, not just on medical grounds, particularly if you make a habit of it - Racers are very driven and selfish and sometimes need saving from themselves, I remember have a long conversation with Shhaun Harris a couple of years after his big crash and he was absolutely certain he was ready to return but in reality he was far from back to normal and the authorities probably correctly made sure he didn't come back (hope hes on the mend)  I hope Johnny Twelvetrees is strong enough to save any further embarassment and pull the plug now, also if Honda can't assure the scrutineers that they know what went wrong and definitely cured it they shouldn't be allowed out.

Guy's interview before the start yesterday wasn't exactly full of confidence. I just hope for a safe and reliable finish for him today.

Guy a non-starter in Supersport race 1.

Guy seems to have had second thoughts - as it looks like he's a non-starter today.

Maybe the wrist is still giving him problems.

Just saw a re-tweet on Manx radio feed - apparently wrist not strong enough.

Re the comment I made re Guy's Mountain Course validity. I never said that he shouldn't ride, I am sure he has done sufficient racing miles.
However, I was given to understand that, after certain exceptions had been made over the last few years, the insurers had withdrawn the option of "Exceptions", and that everyone had to qualify for the Mountain Course licence in the approved manner.

For example, the requirement for this year's Classic TT/MGP being: Compete (and finish) in six separate road race events over a thirteen month period (1st June 2016 to 30th June 2017).  2016 ClassicTT/MGP Practice counts as one signature, and a Mountain Course race finish qualifies as another. Two races must be completed in the year of the event, i.e. this year.
In some instances a Saturday/Sunday race meeting counts as two signatures as long as there are two different permit numbers.

In my opinion, this requirement is too demanding for (say) Manx Grand Prix riders competing on a tight budget, however, when I discussed this with the ACU in my position as Riders Liaison Officer for the MGP, they indicated to me that it was the Insurers who were making the minimum requirement.

I had a similar decision to make with regard riding a bike that gained a reputation for unreliability, i.e. the Britten, when I rode it in 1994.
Poor Mark Farmer was killed on the bike in Thursday's practice, Robert Holden then pulled out stating that he did not feel comfortable riding the bike, leaving me to make a difficult decision. I raced the bike two days later, but it was a difficult decision. I felt ok on the bike, but it WAS ridiculously unreliable. However, I am sure that John Britten respected me for deciding to ride it, even though I broke down in both Formula One and Senior races. I would agree that not everyone agreed that I should ride it, but I made a decision and stuck to it.
If you asked my opinion on whether Guy should ride, I think he should (if fit), but I have a feeling that he won't. Definitely NOT an easy decision, but whatever he decides to do, I believe we should respect him.