I know that this has been posted previously but always falls on deaf ears.

The organisers really do need to revert to numerical start numbers rather than the new seeded and qualifying order, it is an absolute nightmare trying to keep tabs on the leaderboard outside the top 20. Even worse for people watching on TV as they probably won't have a programme or the revised starting lists, so won't have a clue who is lying in what position.

Needs changed for next year.

I agree it's a nightmare if like me you are looking out for some of the lower order riders. It carnt be that hard to give them there start numbers after Friday night. And to try and write the new start places in the programme is near impossible. It make it so much easier to see who making time up or losing time.
Is it a rider thing that they want to keep favourite numbers?

Thank you Chrisp and DBD for echoing my sentiments.
The whole job is a fiasco, and as stated, i have no intention of ever watching any race there under the present system.
Re the favoured numbers,. it's not really that, because the top 20 at the TT  and Classic TT are seeded, and thus are taking nos 1-20 whether they like it or not. 
I watched the Senior Manx, ( there is no number 1-20 seeding), and watching the leading riders (and every other rider ) was completely baffling.
As I have said, the ONLY way to follow the race, is to look at an App, which if you're on the fence watching live kinda defeats the object, AND is incredibly dangerous.
It would be like going to a football match, and following the game on a live blog.
I haven't even begun to discuss the dangers of qualifying during practice. Riders are being forced to put fast laps in, before they or the bike are ready, just in order to get a lower start number............as if that matters.
Back to the 1984 TT, having won the Senior MGP in 1983, the ACU gave me riding number 73 for the Senior, and no. 80 for the Premier Classic (not a classic race like today).
I set off in those races without ever querying the numbers, and finished 7th and 9th. And although an RG500 wasn't as fast as today's bikes...... they were still fast! The following year I was number 18!

Nothing wrong with the way it was before when odd riders with staggeringly fast times were bumped up the starting order at the discretion of the organisers. May be 5 or 6 resulting  changes to programme 

 kilbil

They should start as they are numbered and then we can see who are really making progress or make available updated starting order sheets after all the practice is complete.

I had the same Nick, finished 3rd in the 85 Senior MGP and was refused a entry at the TT. A sponsor fought my corner for me and I was given number 115 and was glad of it!
 I was moved up after practice if I remember correctly.

I thought in the past they gave you a different number if you were faster like when Michael Dunlop did his first TT he started in practice with 83 then come the Superbike race he was 38, think DJ was bumped up to 3 from 15 in 1999 as well.

What I find strange is the fact the majority of the riders & fans don't seem to like this system, yet the organisers won't revert back to the way it was ! Is it a case of 'we know what's best', or just digging their heels in because they won't admit they have got it wrong. Is it to much to ask for an explanation from someone ' higher up ' !!

Its a complete and utter fiasco. New spectators dont know what they are missing with the old system, that said, the current 'event crowd' only seem interested in the top few riders anyway, almost like they are there, just so they can say they were!
The problem is, the current hierarchy will NEVER admit that they are wrong, so we are stuck with what we have.
What makes matters worse is the announcements for changes to program.
Tim Glover seems to think its a game off speed bingo, and reads it that quick, its nigh on impossible to mark down.
But...
I have said this before. Its not my TT anymore, its theirs. Splashdown has chosen to no longer go, and I fully understand and respect that decision. I on the other hand have continued to go.
This year, I was at Glen Helen ( oddly very quite compared to previous years). There were twelve of us sitting on the wall, just before the entrance.
I was the only person with a radio and a program. How you can even think about watching the race without a radio is bonkers, but maybe they were newcomers and they didnt know?
I watched the Senior from the field by the 11th Milestone. Its never very busy there, as there no facility's what so ever ( never bothered me as I come stocked up, and can always pee in a hedge).
This year, apart from the marshals, there was about 6 bikes, and about 6 cars. A Sprinter van turned up just before road closure with about 8-10 people in it. The first thing the done was to take a minifridge out, pluged it in to a generator and filled it with beer.
None of them watched the sidecar race, and for the Senior,they only went to the hedge to watch the first few riders go past each lap, before they went back to there 'party'.
I can sit and shake my head, and moan about spectators like this.the VIP cars etc, etc, but I have to keep reminding myself
This isn't your TT anymore, its theirs.

If the top 20 can be 'seeded' based loosely on previous race lap speeds (I know there is an element of choice still) then why can't this be done for the entire entry?

Leave one in every ten blank (so 25, 35, 45 etc for example) to move those riders lower down who are in obviously quicker than their peers around them and there would be a limit then on programme changes.

It's not rocket science. Once they have confirmed the entries and looked at their previous best lap times it would only take about half an hour. I'd do it for them if they want.

I am a relative newcomer (2014 was the first time I went) and have only watched under the current system. How anyone can watch without a radio is beyond me as you would have no clue what was going on. I am a man so can't multi-task and therefore both looking at live timing and watching the race is not an option!

(28-06-2018, 02:10 PM)c iom tt Wrote: Its a complete and utter fiasco. New spectators dont know what they are missing with the old system, that said, the current 'event crowd' only seem interested in the top few riders anyway, almost like they are there, just so they can say they were!
The problem is, the current hierarchy will NEVER admit that they are wrong, so we are stuck with what we have.
What makes matters worse is the announcements for changes to program.
Tim Glover seems to think its a game off speed bingo, and reads it that quick, its nigh on impossible to mark down.
But...
I have said this before. Its not my TT anymore, its theirs. Splashdown has chosen to no longer go, and I fully understand and respect that decision. I on the other hand have continued to go.
This year, I was at Glen Helen ( oddly very quite compared to previous years). There were twelve of us sitting on the wall, just before the entrance.
I was the only person with a radio and a program. How you can even think about watching the race without a radio is bonkers, but maybe they were newcomers and they didnt know?
I watched the Senior from the field by the 11th Milestone. Its never very busy there, as there no facility's what so ever ( never bothered me as I come stocked up, and can always pee in a hedge).
This year, apart from the marshals, there was about 6 bikes, and about 6 cars. A Sprinter van turned up just before road closure with about 8-10 people in it. The first thing the done was to take a minifridge out, pluged it in to a generator and filled it with beer.
None of them watched the sidecar race, and for the Senior,they only went to the hedge to watch the first few riders go past each lap, before they went back to there 'party'.
I can sit and shake my head, and moan about spectators like this.the VIP cars etc, etc, but I have to keep reminding myself
This isn't your TT anymore, its theirs.

Couldn't have put it better,myself.And the MGP /pseudo Classic TT is going the same way

I must admit I never have a radio when I'm spectating, I just find somewhere to sit/stand and watch. I must say as well, while I watch the sidecars, they don't float my boat as I'm into bikes as most of the people there are so it's no surprise some people start to disappear. My next door neighbour also goes religiously with his mate, have been going together for over 20 years and while my neighbour is bike mad and a marshal, his mate on the other hand despite being a keen biker couldn't give a hoot about the racing and doesn't go anywhere near the track when the racing's on(his exact words "why would I want to watch that rubbish?") and instead goes somewhere quiet for the day. Some people do actually go just for a holiday.