(14-06-2024, 12:41 PM)ian333 Wrote: The road closing order as it relates to contingency days is predicated on lost sessions etc. I am sure this is something that could be changed by the govt going forward if there was a desire for it.

It is all very well if you are on the island asking for races to be pulled forward. Can’t imagine ever going to a sporting event/concert only to get there and it has already occurred. Additionally, sponsors pays a lot of money and have invited guests in place for the race.

Rightly or wrongly, weather forecasts that give even a chance of threading the needle will always be the preferred path is my guess.

Great point about rider fatigue AndG.

Good point.

(14-06-2024, 12:00 AM)Sam Pato Wrote: To be fair - the moaning about how 'it's not as good as it was' has been a fixture of this forum since it's inception.

If it stands still - it's finished.

And long before this forum existed, too. The constant changing/evolving of times, schedules, bikes and even the course itself - and the complaints about those changes - have been happening nearly as long as it's been held!

Same again next year
https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-m...-tt-races/

To be fair the TT has had to evolve otherwise it would have died out by now, Paul Phillips gets some stick but the event was on it's bottom when he was tasked with turning it around, I don't agree with everything he's done but he has overall been a positive for the event. People moan that he's turned it into an event for tourists and 'bucket listers' but those are actually the types of people you need in order for an event to thrive, you can't just rely on the hardcore fans because there really isn't that many of us.

(15-06-2024, 05:22 AM)AntG Wrote: To be fair the TT has had to evolve otherwise it would have died out by now, Paul Phillips gets some stick but the event was on it's bottom when he was tasked with turning it around, I don't agree with everything he's done but he has overall been a positive for the event. People moan that he's turned it into an event for tourists and 'bucket listers' but those are actually the types of people you need in order for an event to thrive, you can't just rely on the hardcore fans because there really isn't that many of us.

Good post, fair points.

It's interesting to take a look around you on the ferries.

TT ferries have an age group of 40's on average, there's some younger and some older but I'd guess it averages out at 40's.

Do the same at the manx and it's minimum 50's, there's a lot of grey hair at the mgp 😁. Which I'd hazard a guess that they're TT fans of old, maybe still going to the TT or maybe not.

I've said it before, I go to both but as i age, my favorite is the manx..... My hair is grey now 😁

Something I have noticed the last couple of years is that there seems to be a lot more women visitors and a lot more women riding their own bikes too which I think is a real positive.

(15-06-2024, 09:58 AM)AntG Wrote: Something I have noticed the last couple of years is that there seems to be a lot more women visitors and a lot more women riding their own bikes too which I think is a real positive.

A very good thing. More female marshals as well, including for the first time my wife. My daughter already marshals and next year she is bringing a mate of hers that wants to get involved. I also noticed on the boat coming back that most bikes were continental. There have always been many but it was very noticeable this time.

(15-06-2024, 09:48 AM)H2pots Wrote: Good post, fair points.

It's interesting to take a look around you on the ferries.

TT ferries have an age group of 40's on average, there's some younger and some older but I'd guess it averages out at 40's.

Do the same at the manx and it's minimum 50's, there's a lot of grey hair at the mgp 😁. Which I'd hazard a guess that they're TT fans of old, maybe still going to the TT or maybe not.

I've said it before, I go to both but as i age, my favorite is the manx..... My hair is grey now 😁

Oi! You cheeky begger!

I'll be 70 during this year's MGP (do TT & MGP) but my mental age is still that of a teenager, plus I suffer from premature kojakulation, so no grey hair!  

I picked up some rider fatigue chat last year and more this year, the races and qualifying will not be run in the wet - for Senior race day I ended up stationed and marshalling at Cammall Farm, there was a passing localised rain shower which left the area around Barregarrow very wet, it was drying quickly but while totally wet the instruction was no racing will proceed and even after considerable inspection by TM as it dried quickly we were informed that any "difference" in road surface(small spots of damp or shine on tarmac) would mean the rain flag had to be displayed, fortunately it all dried out quickly as the sun came out and round / over the trees.
The older fans, marshals etc I speak to mostly say the schedule is too busy but the newer fans are more than happy to see 2/3 days racing or even just qualifying in a 5 day visit - a plus point of this thinking is that at the start of practice week I noticed driving around the course that the whole place seemed busy and we were much better off than previous years with signed up marshals which helps greatly in getting sessions under way on time - I started the response car driving in 2022 and the sector logistics and running about has been getting much easier to deal with especially this year with numbers signed in/on - would like to pass on thanks and appreciation to you all,
Defo agree that there seems to be an increasing number of European bike around the island and in response to local voices heard that the island isn't as busy as media/govt claimed I don't think Douglas has the nightly footfall draw these days - fans who are camping, BnB, homestay etc away from Douglas seem to stay away from Douglas - when i'm out on the road early doors there's lots of fans in specs away from Douglas.
Roll on The Manx

(16-06-2024, 10:18 AM)Nasher Wrote:  I suffer from premature kojakulation

You don't suffer alone pal, I too am struck with the same affliction 😁

(15-06-2024, 05:22 AM)AntG Wrote: People moan that he's turned it into an event for tourists and 'bucket listers' but those are actually the types of people you need in order for an event to thrive, you can't just rely on the hardcore fans because there really isn't that many of us.

People forget that most hardcore fans started off with that "bucket list"/"once in a lifetime trip" visit - and we all know what happens next  

Some interesting points. For me, the new format is a disaster, but it depends what you attend for. If its just to watch the racing and nothing else, then it does not mater if there is racing scheduled/cancelled everyday.
For all the people who thinks that way, go and ask the shops and traders around the island what they think. significantly reduced footfall and the reduced revenue that comes with it. Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday were the days that events could be arranged around the Island with a reasonable expectation that those days would be free from racing.
It terms of the racing, these are my thoughts.
The Superstock and the Superbike are far to close in terms of performance, there is no need for both, so drop one of them.
Supertwins has become a joke, and has come away from its original intention, cheap racing. Put it back to 650 twin, put a weight and BHP limit on it.
Leave the sidecars as they are.
Introduce a Moto3 class.
Re introduce the production class with minimal modifications. The TMs pedal there bikes around quick enough, 3 lap race would be good.
Supersport is a bit of an odd one as the traditional 600cc in line four is a bit weak from a manufactures point of view, but having a Ducati 959 Vtwin and 750cc inline fours in the same class is just wrong.
I am torn on the Bucket Listers. On one hand, there is a diminishing amount of hardcore fans, but the TT has always had its ebbs and flows in attendance. The Powers that be now demand year on year growth. At some point that will stop naturally. Then what?
It feels that the organisers are only interested in getting people in the Fanzone at Nobles, or in the paddock grandstands/area. you never here any promotion of anything else going on. Did anyone hear any radio promotion of the MGP? But we were bombarded with adverts to come and work/relocate to the island.
Prohibited areas.
Where do I start? I completely understand the need to constantly review these areas. In 1992 for the Senior I was sitting on the grass bank just by the campsite entrance just after Hillbery. I remember the Marshal coming just before the start and telling us to be careful, as if there is an accident at Hillbery corner, we are in the firing line. He advised that our escape route is behind us into the field which has a bit of a drop. I remember thinking at the time that if the was an incident at Hillbery, we are well out of the way.
Well sure enough, Shaun Harris came off, his bike came towards us on the pavement, and we all bailed out backwards into the brambles and the field. I tell that tale as I understand the need for prohibited areas, However.....
I have attended the TT every single year since 1992 for the full race week, including 2001 foot and mouth, and have watched one by one some spots become prohibited over the years for no apparent reason or explanation.
For example some of my previous favourite spots .
Balaspur Farm, the bus stop at Ginger Hall, the laybye at Quarry Bends. The Laybye doesnt even have any restricted notices up, but the Marshals stop you from watching there. Has anyone ever seen or heard of any incidents over the years? I haven't, so why? They are not even in the natural firing line if an incident occurs.
So this year I was making my way to another one of my spots, the beginning of the grass bank on the left to Sulby Bridge, and Boom! Prohibited area. Why?
Change if it improves is good. Change for the sake of it is not. Some things are minor in the great scheme of things. Personally, I do not understand how changing the bright vivid orange of the mile markers to a washed out orange is an improvement.
Regardless of all that is my opinion means jack squat. I think we were previously described by the saviour of the TT as the vocal minority, and not part of there targeted opinion survey.

As usual great TT, my 24th this year.

Seen a lot of change over these years, both with the island and the races themselves.

amazing to be on island for MD's wins, that was special.

The schedule was a mess, due to the weather. The Tuesday especially was frustrating but it must have been more for the racers. Nobody's fault really.

Its weird to see Douglas soo quiet in the evenings, previously every pub was rammed or standing outside only. This year on our pub crawls, seats and easily accessed pubs.

On the Monday 'rest day' we took a boat trip round the Calf, it was nice, the weather was great. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't really what we were there for.

Agree with the comments on the corporate stuff and fan zones, they do need to promote what else is actually going on throughout the fortnight. My opinion is that the TT provides for a lot of the hospitality businesses, churches etc income for the year and it appears that this seems to be trying to lock down to the fan park only. I do enjoy the fan park, the atmosphere is great (not Bushy's of old rowdy) but also not football fan/drunk idiots. Probably because its so expensive to be honest.

The 'bucket lister' thing seems to be where the money is. Its weird as the folks we spoke to on the ferry are yearly attendee's as are the people in our homestay, we didn't meet any first timers.

Frustrations this year. We were up at the bungalow for the superbike race on the Sunday. Arrived around 10am and sat enjoying the parade lap etc. Lap 2 of the race some folks arrived and stood right in front of us so we couldn't see. Frustrating but not the end of the world.

The French always meet on Douglas prom one evening of race week, just across from the Sefton. No issues with that, but the mess left was appalling, then the sea gulls started getting munched into whatever they had left. Not nice to see.

(22-06-2024, 03:45 PM)c iom tt Wrote: the laybye at Quarry Bends. The Laybye doesnt even have any restricted notices up, but the Marshals stop you from watching there. Has anyone ever seen or heard of any incidents over the years? I haven't, so why?

Isn't that just part of the road/course?

(22-06-2024, 03:45 PM)c iom tt Wrote: So this year I was making my way to another one of my spots, the beginning of the grass bank on the left to Sulby Bridge, and Boom! Prohibited area. Why?

Right on the corner is prohibited for obvious reasons, further up towards the bridge it's just "motorsport is dangerous".

(22-06-2024, 03:45 PM)c iom tt Wrote: Personally, I do not understand how changing the bright vivid orange of the mile markers to a washed out orange is an improvement.

Elsewhere I've seen people complain that the new ones are too bright (and I suppose they are a lot more so than the old dirty battered ones they replaced ). I'm not sure it would even have been discussed either way if there was no announcement in the press about them.

On prohibited areas - there's a very simple reason for them, answered here - https://youtu.be/n5Bi6wiRFN0?si=60yx-E6G9HIzFMM2&t=4030 (1:07:10 if the link doesn't take you right to that part of the video)

(The rest of the interview is well worth a listen too, as are all of Dom Herbertson's podcasts)

(26-06-2024, 12:12 PM)civ Wrote: Isn't that just part of the road/course?  


Right on the corner is prohibited for obvious reasons, further up towards the bridge it's just "motorsport is dangerous".



Elsewhere I've seen people complain that the new ones are too bright (and I suppose they are a lot more so than the old dirty battered ones they replaced   ). I'm not sure it would even have been discussed either way if there was no announcement in the press about them.

1 No, watched there for years.
2 Wrong section. Again, watched there for years.
3 Old ones were never at anytime dirty or battered. It will have been discussed behind closed doors and is part of the rebranding.

(26-06-2024, 12:21 PM)civ Wrote: On prohibited areas - there's a very simple reason for them, answered here - https://youtu.be/n5Bi6wiRFN0?si=60yx-E6G9HIzFMM2&t=4030 (1:07:10 if the link doesn't take you right to that part of the video)

(The rest of the interview is well worth a listen too, as are all of Dom Herbertson's podcasts)

That does not explain why some areas have become prohibited. I already gave an example of my experience of an area that use to be accessible, but then became prohibited. The ironic thing there however, was the marshals and the power that be knew that section of Cronk Y Mona was an issue, but continued to let people sit there. I could give you many, many more examples of areas that are now prohibited where previously they weren't, and good reasons why they should or should not be. 
What Gary Thompson is correct about is the one reason the TT would stop, Large spectator fatalities.  
We came very close to it at the bottom of Bray Hill a few years back, but the reality is it could happen anywhere even now where spectators are allowed. 
Why do you think the Heras fencing went up in front of the scoreboards before the scoreboard was eventually removed? That was to protect the Scouts. Scouts had been there previously for Donkeys. Thats one side of the circuit.  We have seen many, many times on short circuits in BSB for example, where the bike has bounced funny, cleared fencing, barriers and ended it in the trees behind the circuit.  Imagine something like that happening on the start finish line an the bike ending up in the grandstand, or the grandstand at the entry lane, Braddan Church, Goreslea, Rhencullen Grandstand, Parlament Square the list goes on and on. Some of us have been coming long enough to have seen some unforeseen accidents. I am not talking about rider error. Wildlife on the Couse have caused some horrific accidents over the years in areas that are not deemed to be needing to be prohibited.
 Again, most people are not aware that there are some areas where the Organisers want to be prohibited, but the land owners refuse them permission. I will give you one example.  The bank in front of the house at Hillbery. If you sit there, the Sector Marshal will get everyone's attention and give a speech on how you are sitting there at your own risk, and the organisers do not want you to be there.
So without being clever, No there isnt a simple reason for them being there. There is a very good reason why most of them are prohibited ( and lets not get on to the restricted areas which are different again)
Bottom line is if you took a risk assessment for the whole circuit, then the whole circuit should be prohibited.

It's Insurance - not particularly the cost but getting a company to actually take the risk on board and there's not much we can do about that .... I possibly wouldn't be going too overboard pointing out on here where it could all go wrong, insurance companies aren't bothered if the TT carries on or not and they are looking to reduce their risk as every year passes.

Totally agree - insurance coverage / fan fatalities are the biggest threat to the TT. Some fans would sit on the middle of the road if you left it up to them.

(26-06-2024, 07:02 PM)Alfie Noakes Wrote: It's Insurance - not particularly the cost but getting a company to actually take the risk on board and there's not much we can do about that .... I possibly wouldn't be going too overboard pointing out on here where it could all go wrong, insurance companies aren't bothered if the TT carries on or not and they are looking to reduce their risk as every year passes.

Insurance will untimely be the key, but there was also something mentioned this year that went unnoticed or certainly not picked up on, and that was Tynwald not wanting bad press/ accidents/deaths shedding a bad light on IOM Ltd. Although it is sort of obvious, I don't recall it being vocalised in that manner before. Again, behind the scenes, there is obviously discussions to reduce that publicly to an absolute minimum. 
As for pointing out things, Insurance company's are not daft and will have a lot more facts and figures that we will ever be told about when calculating the risks and coming up with a premium. It also would not surprise me if Tynwald was underwriting some of that risk, and have been since that last big incident that has resurfaced in the press lately.
Shane Byrne suing MSV for his accident wont help Motorsport Insurance premiums generally either.