Its just the human race in general getting worse the world we live in bikers used to look out for one another in years gone by
Not anymore now were targeted by gangs of bike part stealers at racing events European and here at home used to be safe to leave a bike in a car park with thousands of others not anymore

(23-06-2015, 10:36 AM)c iom tt Wrote: I was also there the year that someone rode there bike into the lobby of Toffs nightclub, and done a burnout on the carpet, setting of the fire alarm causing a complete evacuation of the Palace Hotel at 1.00am in the morning.
What there never SEEMED to be was the loutish behaviour that you see now.

?!?! So that wasn't loutish behaviour ?!?! I'm very confused, I don't get how the new breed of fans are any worse?

There was a picture in the paper of how stonehendge looked after all the all the peace and love the earth hippies had gone after the summer soltice . What a horrible mess of litter, I do hope that the TT crowd treat the Island with more respect than the hippies treated thier mecca

(23-06-2015, 11:35 AM)wsn03 Wrote: ?!?! So that wasn't loutish behaviour ?!?! I'm very confused, I don't get how the new breed of fans are any worse?

I think the kids/teens/twenty somethings in my area of Manchester are terrible ,until i think back to what i used to get up to

(23-06-2015, 12:18 PM)imort Wrote: I think the kids/teens/twenty somethings in my area of Manchester are terrible ,until i think back to what i used to get up to

You've probably hit the nail on the head. The man watching his carpet being chewed up was probably horrified and no doubt scared by the experience - some at the time were probably really drunk and found it funny. Fast forward 20 years and a far lesser event is a horrifying act to us now that we're older, more responsible and more easily offended.

I lived on the Island from 1970 to 1991 - trust me, the fans in the 70s and 80s didn't spend their time doffing caps to everyone on their afternoon strolls. And the late 90s in Douglas were about the worst - girls getting them out for the crowds encouraged by the entertainment organisers, in full view of any kids around on the big screen - not to mention the thefts, the fights, the drugs and the vey very anti-social riding. Does anyone remember when locals started complaining en masse about the dangerous riding, when an out of control bike crashed into a local car killing some family??

No question there are idiots, but there always were, they follow big events everywhere. I probably found it not as bad this year as many in the past - I certainly never came across any trouble.

All i want to know is - when was it any better after society decided to drop some of its old fashioned behaviour, say from the 70s onwards?
And when did the organisers sit down and decide to attract trouble to the Island as some sort of policy / good idea?

One thing I did notice about the mad riding is that it was done by people who are old enough to know better, not 21 year old lads but grown men who probably have grandkids. Don't get me wrong I love a good wheelie or burnout but there's a time and a place and that is not down the middle of Quarterbridge Road when there's thousands of other vehicles on the road.

Fair points that WSN - good post.

I'm from Ramsey and was out and about all over TT week and the only bad behavior I saw was a local youth hurling abuse at the kebab shop guys after he had tried to jump the queue and been thrown out. The bars cafes etc were all full and everyone was having a good time. Its obviously a very small minority and by no means is that something imported for the occasion. Every village has its idiots!

At the Southern each year there is a lunatic we call "Benellii Boy" He rides around the circuit like a loon. We saw him the year later doing the same. In the evening in Castletown Sq he removed his helmet he was aged 65+ possibly 70+!!!

(23-06-2015, 01:17 PM)taxman Wrote: Fair points that WSN - good post.

I'm from Ramsey and was out and about all over TT week and the only bad behavior I saw was a local youth hurling abuse at the kebab shop guys after he had tried to jump the queue and been thrown out. The bars cafes etc were all full and everyone was having a good time. Its obviously a very small minority and by no means is that something imported for the occasion. Every village has its idiots!

Thanks taxman, as a local you'll know where I'm coming from.

I forgot to add, something I found on the  Manx Nostalgia Facebook site, there was a riot in Douglas led by TT fans in the (I think) early 70s!!!
Oh how charming, one clearly had a far more dignified clientel in them days.

Btw, first time I ever saw a couple getting down to business in the long grass was at Sulby as a kid - he was riding a lime green metallic Honda, she had a lillac coloured bra. Nice bike, nice baps - but for some reason he and her decided to lie down behind the grass out of my view, how boring I thought to myself (as a young child), just lying down in the grass - I'd rather have been riding the bike.
Wonderful days, when visitors wanted nothing more than to drink beer, ride their motorbikes with the local girls (well over the limit of course), and lie down in the grass, probably to remeniss about the days racing.

What have the organisers done?!?! Bring back the old civilised visitor....

 The only thing I was seeing a lot of was soon as the rider saw a crowd they just pulled the clutch in and revved the bike to the limiter from a mechanics point of view what's that all about!!

(23-06-2015, 12:47 PM)wsn03 Wrote: You've probably hit the nail on the head. The man watching his carpet being chewed up was probably horrified and no doubt scared by the experience - some at the time were probably really drunk and found it funny. Fast forward 20 years and a far lesser event is a horrifying act to us now that we're older, more responsible and more easily offended.

I lived on the Island from 1970 to 1991 - trust me, the fans in the 70s and 80s didn't spend their time doffing caps to everyone on their afternoon strolls. And the late 90s in Douglas were about the worst - girls getting them out for the crowds encouraged by the entertainment organisers, in full view of any kids around on the big screen - not to mention the thefts, the fights, the drugs and the vey very anti-social riding. Does anyone remember when locals started complaining en masse about the dangerous riding, when an out of control bike crashed into a local car killing some family??

No question there are idiots, but there always were, they follow big events everywhere. I probably found it not as bad this year as many in the past - I certainly never came across any trouble.

All i want to know is - when was it any better after society decided to drop some of its old fashioned behaviour, say from the 70s onwards?
And when did the organisers sit down and decide to attract trouble to the Island as some sort of policy / good idea?

wsn03
 Were has anyone specifically posted that the DED have sat down and decided to attract trouble to the island?
What I have said is the DED want to consider who they are marketing the event to.
Lets us rewind  for a moment and start again.
The TT is all about motorcycle racing. So it would make sense to first market the event to people who have an interest in motorcycles. Yes, I know that the DED set up a stand at the NEC bike show, but what happened to the support the motorcycle monthly press used to give the TT. Bike, Performance Bike, Back Street Heros, Superbike, Strretfighters ( now defunk, but stiill part of BSH )all used to have a very strong presence at the TT, and now there is nothing. MCN has increased its profile at the TT, and I do believe that is a direct result of the DED.
 I would be interested to know if the DED has put in the same effort with the monthlys as they have with MCN. It may be that they have and have had a negative response back from them. Either way no one can deny that MCN apart, the coverage and support the TT gets from the monthlys is a fraction of what it use to be.
So now we are left with the DED promoting to a different market, which will attract none motorcycle enthusiasts. You can argue that there is nothing wrong with that, and I am not saying that there is.
Now we have Chris Evans as the new host of Top Gear saying that there will be more motorcycles on the show, and should they come to the TT.
From a marketing point of veiw, for the DED, it is a golden ticket.
What I dont want to happen is ( assuming that the new Top Gear is as good as the old one) the boy racer car brigade gets a whiff that they have a mini version of the Nurburgring right on there doorstep when the Mountain section is one way for two weeks. And yes I know that Top Gear have done a few car features on the Island, but they have never explained in detail what happens at the TT.
I assume the DED will have some presence at Goodwood Festival of Speed this weekend?

(23-06-2015, 11:35 AM)Kursaal Flyer Wrote: There was a picture in the paper of how stonehendge looked after all the all the peace and love the earth hippies had gone after the summer soltice . What a horrible mess of litter, I do hope that the TT crowd treat the Island with more respect than the hippies treated thier mecca

After the Senior race was over this year and we had put all the marshalling gear away, me and the Mrs walked along the footpath from Sulby village towards the bridge and collected 2 plastic sacks full of litter that had been left on top of the bank or thrown down into the field so I would say no, not all do treat it with respect.

(23-06-2015, 02:15 PM)c iom tt Wrote: wsn03
 Were has anyone specifically posted that the DED have sat down and decided to attract trouble to the island?

This is what I was replying to reference the DED targetting trouble makers, first page of this thread (and not posted by you):

"The TT has always been self-policing and if these loud mouthed fools had started giving it some on a night they might have had a shock in store. Unfortunately it does seem that they are the new target audience that the powers that be want at the TT so who's really to blame."

At you I asked the question reference your bizzare recollection of a guy doing a burnout inside a hotel, whilst exclaiming that despite these incidents there never seemed to be any loutish behaviour in those days - really??? I'm struggling with the logic in that one too, but not putting words in anyones mouth.

Age makes us see things we would have found funny as being out of order. Rose coloured spectacles and an obviouos dislike for some of the organisers seek an easy soft target for any negativity regarding the TT - it always has on these forums. The racing was class, so lets pretend the fan base has gone down hill instead?!?!

I can't help but think people want to find negatives....I've been there myself.  But despite my fond memories I cant see anything getting worse, and most things keep getting better. So I continue to stand up for fair comment, digs at the organisers in this instance I feel are wide of the mark and grossly unfair.

A few things.
1 I never said I did.
2 Bizzare recollection????? It was a FACT. I used to supply and maintain the AV equipment for the Lido and Toffs/Palace from mid 80's till late 90's, so was heavly involved at the time especially at TT periods. The guy was banned from driving ( drunk ) and charged with criminal damage.
3 The 'loutish behavour' is obviously getting lost in translation, so is best left droped. I know what I mean, but I am obvously not explaning myself correctly.
4 The DED are Civil Servants. They have a job to do.I do not have an obvious dislike for them, and have praised them on a number of ocasions when the do something right. I would counter that with some have an obvious love for the DED and they can do no wrong in there eyes. I would also argue that I am being objective in my veiws, whilst others are not.
4 The fan base has not gone downhill. But some fans react and behave very differently to others. Example. If 76,000 rugby fans can pack into Twicknham, and they can all drink alcohol on the terraces whilst watching the game. Yet not one of the 42,000+ fans that can pack into Anfeild ( or any other football stadium) can drink alcohol whist watching the match. So, yes, if the TT moves forward attracting some of the newer type fans, the fan base has the potential to go downhill.

(23-06-2015, 03:27 PM)c iom tt Wrote: A few things.
1 I never said I did.
2 Bizzare recollection????? It was a FACT. I used to supply and maintain the AV equipment for the Lido and Toffs/Palace from mid 80's till late 90's, so was heavly involved at the time especially at TT periods. The guy was banned from driving ( drunk ) and charged with criminal damage.
3 The 'loutish behavour' is obviously getting lost in translation, so is best left droped. I know what I mean, but I am obvously not explaning myself correctly.
4 The DED are Civil Servants. They have a job to do.I do not have an obvious dislike for them, and have praised them on a number of ocasions when the do something right. I would counter that with some have an obvious love for the DED and they can do no wrong in there eyes. I would also argue that I am being objective in my veiws, whilst others are not.
4 The fan base has not gone downhill. But some fans react and behave very differently to others. Example. If 76,000 rugby fans can pack into Twicknham, and they can all drink alcohol on the terraces whilst watching the game. Yet not one of the 42,000+ fans that can pack into Anfeild ( or any other football stadium) can drink alcohol whist watching the match. So, yes, if the TT moves forward attracting some of the newer type fans, the fan base has the potential to go downhill.

It's a bizzare recollection - i.e. it's a bizzare thing to have happened, I'm not questioning your memory - these kind of crazy things did happen, they always have, that's my point!

My post isn't aimed at you, its aimed at all the rose coloured spectacles that imply things used to be better, and that includes your comment about there not being loutish behaviour in the past - there was, I remember it well! There always will be unless the TT becomes as popular as the MGP, an event clearly followed by the enthusiast only, much lesser numbers than the TT -  the sort like me who will watch any racing regardless of it not being mainstream popular on the TV.

I have no love for the organisers, but I have a lot of respect for them, they've succeeded to do a lot of things that no one before them has managed to do in the more challenging times that followed the early 90s, including make a very un-PC event appealing to the masses, the teams, the media, the manufacturers, and somehow cool and acceptable when everyone said the end was nigh - that takes some doing.
They are the civil servants who exist in lets face it, a pretty underperforming government, that have really pulled the rabit out of the hat. Yes the TT is bigger and better than all of them, but they have always said it already was a great event. What they have done is organised it in such a way that its success, in my book against the odds, has become an ongoing reality.

One can keep looking for faults in the job they've done, but, as an objective onlooker (rather than a star struck groupie), I'm struggling to see where the error states are. With the Islands Finances, tourist policy, etc etc I can find thousands of faults - but the TT isn't one of them. So I don't get it when people imply they are the reason some drunken idiot chooses to come to the TT and nick a motorbike.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll agree to disagree. In summary I don't think behaviour is any worse - its ok overall, there are some very bad parts, but there always has been. I don't think making it mainstream popular is bringing in the bad ones, they have always turned up. If the TT is aimed at mainstream bikers it will be like the MGP, then the government won't support it, and it goes. Simple.

Do you know when the Sea Cadets National Regatta is on and where this year?
No?
Why?
Because the organisers have not marketed to you. They have stuck with there core audience.
For all we know, they might have there own version of GM/MD/JMcG etc and they are having a whale of a time every year.
Now you are going to tell me that you are/ use to be a Sea Cadet!

I used to be a Sea Cadet xxx

Bet that event doesn't bring in as many people, as much sponsorship, or as much media revenue as the TT does. We're forgetting something, the government needs the money, that's why the TT has to be a big commercial success.

So what is the National Regatta like and is there any bad behaviour?

(23-06-2015, 04:11 PM)c iom tt Wrote: So what is the National Regatta like and is there any bad behaviour?

It's great, its absolutely awash with clunge.
Sorry wrong forum...... err..... I don't know, the horrid organisers never targetted me, sounds really exciting though, might look into it.

(23-06-2015, 04:08 PM)wsn03 Wrote: I used to be a Sea Cadet xxx

Bet that event doesn't bring in as many people, as much sponsorship, or as much media revenue as the TT does. We're forgetting something, the government needs the money, that's why the TT has to be a big commercial success.

They cant need the money that badly if they can blow £600k on collecting info on something that the could have gotten with a few thousand questioners put on the boats.