Whilst having a long overdue tidy-up at home at the weekend, I came across copies of letters I sent to the 'TT Think Tank' and to David Cretney in 2003 and 2004. This was at the time the TT had hit rock-bottom in just about every sense - profile, standard of entry and organisation. Reading what I wrote at the time, and then thinking of last weekend's 2007 TT Press launch at which the strongest entry in the history of the TT was announced, made me realise just what an amazing transformation has taken place over the past 3 years.

Whilst I don't agree with quite everything that has been done, I do find it extraordinary that the one individual who has worked harder than anybody else to bring about this rebirth of the event over the past 3 years or so, still continues to be villified in some quarters. I really have no idea why!

Anyhow, I thought it might be of interest to reproduce what I wrote in the early part of 2004, and to compare what was happening then with what is happening now:

Dear Mr Cretney,

I write in response to the Consultation Document regarding TT 2005 and beyond, recently released by your Department. I also wrote to the TT Think Tank last summer in response to the request for public views at that time.

Firstly, I would like to sincerely thank and congratulate both the Department of Tourism and Leisure as a whole, and you personally, for the tremendous amount of time and hard work that has clearly been devoted to this subject, which is so close to so many of our hearts. In my view, the single most positive thing to happen has been the removal of the ACU officials from the administration of the event, and the handing over of that responsibility to the Manx Motorcycle Club in partnership with the Department of Tourism and Leisure. This is a huge step in the right direction, and one which I feel sure will make for a much more pleasant environment for the riders and their teams.

I am not, however, saying that I am happy with all the proposals and suggestions that have been put forward, indeed certain ones have left me totally bewildered. I hope you will therefore accept my criticisms in the spirit in which they are intended, coming as they do from someone who is a passionate supporter of the TT and who consequently has strong views on a number of issues. Rather than replying specifically on an 'issue by issue' basis, I would prefer to make a few general comments regarding decisions that have been made in respect of TT 2004, and some of the proposals for TT 2005 and beyond.

4-Lap Formula One and Senior Races - In all the time I have been a fan of the TT races (something like 35 years), this idea of cutting the two showpiece races to 4 laps is unquestionably the most ridiculous decision, and the reasons given for that decision the most insulting to the intelligence of the general public, that I can ever remember. Since this decision was announced, I have spoken to countless people from every area of the TT - riders, sponsors, general public, media etc - and I have yet to find one single person who disagrees with my opinion. I have no doubt that this issue alone will reduce the number of spectators travelling over to the TT more than anything else has done in the history of the TT. I know for sure of several people who were undecided about coming over for the TT this year who have now decided not to come because of this.

Why? Because as a visitor, you spend a small fortune to travel over to the Isle of Man and stay here for two weeks - far more than you would spend on a two-week holiday to Majorca - and will now be getting less value for that money. For me personally, as a local, the highlight of my year is always the Formula One TT. If the weather's reasonable, you get to your spot on the course, get yourself comfortable on the hedge, unpack the radio, sandwiches, coffee (or beer if you're not riding), and enjoy two hours plus of the best entertainment the world of sport has to offer. A 6-lap race, for the spectator, is the ultimate in relief from the stresses of day-to-day life and gives you a wonderful chance to unwind. A 4-lap race can never be the same - just when it's starting to get really exciting, it's over. For the rider, 6 laps is very hard work, no doubt about it, and you have to be extremely fit. But if you're not extremely fit you shouldn't be competing in the TT anyway. I believe that even most of the current riders acknowledge that winning a 4-lap F1 or Senior race could never put them in the same league as all the great names who have won 6-lap races and therefore passed the test of both rider and machine. The prestige of a rider and a machine winning a 6-lap race is, to coin an old phrase, the ultimate.

The excuse that accidents happen toward the end of long races is nothing more than a smokescreen with absolutely no basis in fact. I have no doubt that reducing the races to 4 laps will turn them into a frantic sprint, riders will try even harder and take more risks than they already do, and there will be more accidents, not less. And the notion that the amount of practice time a rider has had should reduce the race distance simply defies belief. Why should that have anything to do with the race distance? Why is it OK for riders who haven't had as much practice as they would have liked, to do 4 laps, but not another 2? Sorry, I just don't buy this one.

The really strange thing about all this is that the decision was announced supposedly after lengthy consultation. With whom? I don't know a single rider, or sponsor, or spectator, who is in favour. I do know of many other issues that were raised by many of the people who were consulted, but not this one. Please, please, accept that a huge mistake has been made, and restore the Formula One and Senior Races to 6 laps in time for THIS year's TT. People will respect the admission of a mistake, which is a sign of strength not weakness.

Works Teams/Race Programme - In an ideal world, it would be great to have all the big teams at the TT every year, and it would certainly add to the prestige of the event. I can't help feeling, though, that perhaps a little too much emphasis has recently been placed on what the manufacturers are asking for, at the risk of alienating many of the other competitors without whom the TT could not exist. I'm not in favour of reducing the TT to 9 or 10 days as has been suggested in some quarters - I think the Practice and Race programme should stay largely as it is, including the 125/400 race. The riders to fill the grid at this race are out there - a little encouragement is all that is required to get many more entries for this race, which after all is now the only one that breaks the monotony of the big 4-stroke bikes doing 4-lap races. I believe that this race is one of the most popular of the week amongst spectators. One thing I am very concerned about is the suggestion of having practice sessions after the racing on Saturday and Monday. I can't really believe that a rider who has just done the Formula One race, successfully, is really going to want to hang around sober for 3 hours waiting to do a couple of practice laps after the sidecar race. Similarly, many spectators will want to get away after the last race of the day. Perhaps one lap on Monday afternoon (in place of the Classic Parade) and one on the Wednesday (as already happens) would suffice.

Quality of Entry - This is something which I feel really strongly about. I don't know if any one individual is responsible for rider recruitment or whether it's a collective responsibility, but either way this area needs to be improved massively. It has been very frustrating over recent years to witness the incredibly low standard of some entrants, especially the foreign ones who have no doubt been paid a good deal of money to come here. Better by far to approach riders in clubs throughout Britain and Ireland, where there is a huge amount of untapped potential, especially on the Irish road-racing scene. Many of these riders wouldn't need much persuasion to try the TT, but they HAVE to be approached in the right way, and given appropriate support and encouragement. Perhaps the TT organisers should speak to Mervyn White and Eddie Johnston who are the 'main men' at the North West 200. The way in which they run their meeting and the quality of entry they attract every year is an object lesson for the TT, which is horribly amateur by comparison. We shouldn't be frightened of learning from others.

Classic Weekend - I think the idea of having a 'Classic Festival', incorporating the Classic Parade after the Senior TT on the Friday followed by further parades at Billown during the Steam Packet Meeting on the Saturday together with displays of classic machines in Castletown Square, has a great deal of merit. One thing I did wonder with regard to this - how about the Pre-TT Classic meeting and the Steam Packet Races swapping dates, thereby having all the classic events over one period of 3 or 4 days at the end of the fortnight? As it presently stands, you have the pre-TT Classic Races at the start of Practice Week, then the Parade Laps etc nearly 2 weeks later. It's asking a lot for classic enthusiasts to travel to the island twice in such a short space of time if they're not here for the full fortnight. I must admit that I'm not quite sure how you'd incorporate the Steam Packet races into the first part of practice week though, but it's at least food for thought.

TT Production Races / MGP - I covered this subject at some length in my previous correspondence, but feel I have to raise it again. I totally oppose the idea of riders being allowed to compete in both the TT and the MGP, regardless of whether their TT ride is on a Production bike or not. The only exception should be with regard to the MGP Classic races which should remain open to all. Yet the word is that, far from stopping this happening, the organisers will this year allow riders to compete in the Senior TT on their Production machines, and still be eligible to compete in the MGP. So we have now reached the point where the Senior TT, once the greatest road race in the world, is now a practice session for the amateur Manx Grand Prix - very sad indeed. The riders who do both meetings are depriving others, perhaps promising newcomers, from getting a ride in the TT at all, while they are getting two bites at the cherry. One of two decisions must be made immediately. 1 - Once a rider has competed in any TT race on any machine, he/she becomes ineligible for the modern classes at the MGP (I am strongly in favour of this), or 2 - Drop all restrictions between the TT and MGP, thus allowing any rider to compete in both events without any restrictions. In other words, have two TTs. Now that both the TT and the MGP are being run by the same administration, a decision must be made on this immediately before the situation becomes even more farcical than it already is.

I feel sure that I will think of other things after I've sent this off to you, but these are at least a few of my opinions on what I see as the major issues. Notwithstanding the criticisms I have detailed above, I think that many very positive steps have been taken over the past few months with regard to the future of the TT. I would like to wish you and all those involved in the future organisation of the TT all the best, and thank you for all your hard work so far.

Yours sincerely,


David Griffiths

David Griffiths Wrote:thinking of last weekend's 2007 TT Press launch at which the strongest entry in the history of the TT was announced

Interesting speil, David, but you must only be in your twenties if you truly believe that! It would be an interesting thread to follow, but today's entry - and no insult intended to anyone, as it probably is the best you are going to get - cannot possibly compare with the days when there were full works teams in all solo classes from Honda, Yamaha and MV, with in other times Norton, AJS, Gilera, MZ....the list goes on. It was not only the marques, but in many races there were 3 or 4 World Champions or ex-world champions.
Those of us that lived through those times should really feel sorry for those that are too young to have done so. If you weren't there, you cannot possibly understand what nonsense your statement is.

I agree with Peter that the TT entry is the best it's been in a long time but to say it's the best ever is, in my opinion, a bit insulting to the memory of the riders from the golden era of the 50s and 60s, when some of the most talented riders in the world rode the most amazing machinery around the Mountain Course.

It is however a common marketing ploy and probably works very well with current visitor demographic who think the TT consists of one race day, one day of posing and one day of getting legless in a tent. :wink:

I also agree with Peter i was priviliged to witness the sixties and the TT as a world championship round and the sounds were mindblowing but to be honest good luck to the future and i hope it has a good centenary.

The line up for TT 2007 'IS' the best since the TT lost it's Grand Prix status. Arguably it is better than many years when it did have GP status.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but memories fade and we forget the total domination of one factory or another and only remember the epic battles that were few and far between even then.

Give 'em a break I can't wait for May

I have just reread what I put, and feel that I should say that the line-up looks good, and that Paul has done a good job.
Just do not compare the modern production races with world championship riders, machines and factories.
Today's races are a chip butty to yesterday's 7 course banquet!
If you have never heard and seen a Honda6.......you poor thing!

What about strength in depth Peter?

Did you ever go to a TT where 12 riders potentially could win it?

I am as you say a poor thing for not being around when the world championship was run but you can't miss the excitement if your 7 years in the post from that era

Compare motor racing to how it was back then, was there BSB, WSBK, AMA, Moto GP, World Enduro, European Superstock, the R6 Cup, the TT! not to mention most western european countries own domestic championships, all shown at different times on a variety of TV channels.

What I'm saying is the whole system has been thrown upside, shook about a bit and thrown out in a totally different shape. To compare anything like that is ridiculous, how about a World War I Bi-plane with an F-16 Fighter Jet, no one does completely different era's (evolution).

30 years from now, you'll never hear a sound like a RC211V Honda, ooooh magic

Didn't want to bring this posting down, some great points in there at the top, oh and well done Philly :wink:

Some interesting comments here! My original posting was intended primarily to praise what is happening now rather than to 'do down' any of the riders of the past. I should, however, point out that my comment about the 2007 TT entry being the strongest ever was in terms of the overall standard, as Beatster has rightly pointed out. I hold 100% to that view, and don't retract my opinion at all.

Peter, I only wish I was in my 20s - however the letter I copied in my original posting (which was written 3 years ago) stated that I had been watching the TT for 35 years, so I fear your maths has gone a little haywire somewhere along the line!! My earliest memories were in fact of your era. I well remember as a little boy being taken to watch at the top of Barregarroo with my cousins. On each lap we used to watch Ago go past, have a lemonade and a sandwich, have a run around in the field for 5 minutes, then go back to the hedge to watch the second man go past! Believe me, that's not much of an exaggeration.

The 'Golden Era' of the TT was without doubt the mid-1950s to mid-1960s, when most of the best riders in the world were indeed at the TT, many on full works bikes. In my opinion, there were two huge differences in those days compared with now - one good, one bad. The good thing was the variety, and noise, of the machinery. And for sure, none better than the Honda 6! My biggest gripe now is that it is all the same - but unfortunately, that is the way of the modern biking world and the TT organisers have to face facts and realities. But the bad thing was that many of the top riders back then didn't want to be at the TT, and were only there under pressure from the teams and manufacturers because they needed the points for the World Championship. Some of those riders who really didn't want to be at the TT at all sadly paid the ultimate price. Now, every rider from first to last, is there for one reason only - because they want to be there.

But even in the halcyon days of the TT back in the 50s and 60s, the real quality didn't extend much beyond the top 10 or 12 - the rest were, quite literally, miles behind. If you don't believe me, log onto the databases at http://www.iomtt.com and have a look at the gap between the front runners and the rest of the field in the races of that era (or just about any other era, come to that). In 2007, and I will say it again, there will be more quality than ever before throughout the WHOLE field.

I have seen the works Hondas , MVs , remember Agos last year here in 72 when he beat fellow works MV pilot Pagani by 8 mins , real close racing . The only way anyone else could beat Hailwood or Ago was if they broke down , none of the other riders where anywhere near them maybe Read , but there was nothing like the strenght in depth of the entry now , sure there where a lot of works teams & bikes & some fantastic sounding & looking machines , but in many cases thats all they where .
The machines that are used now are all factory enetered with equal chances of winning , there are at least eight riders who could win possibly even more , that has never been the case in any era & i agree with David this years entry is possibly the best in the history of the TT races , the best i have ever seen anyway .

Shaun,

My point exactly....

Thr 250 and 350 races were often the best of the fortnight because there was more strength in depth. Works teams from Honda, Yamaha, Benelli, MV etc. Then almighty gaps back to the rest of the 'Continental Circus' and the 'holiday racers' :wink:

In the latter years of GP the 500's were generally a toss up between Honda and MV Augusta 'if' they both finished. Once Honda pulled out 'no contest' and if they both failed to finish it was... "Another British manufacturer wins a TT" Even if the race speed was down 10mph on SMB and Ago'

The one class that did have more strength in depth was the 'slidy cars' With all the works and semi-works BMW's and the Fath etc....but we're catching up with the sidecar entries as well, the sidecar class is improving year on year.

What a brilliant thread....two relevant viewpoints and perspectives being debated and openly challenged without animosity

I will offer my tuppenceworth on the comparisons of era's because I feel comfortable to do so in this thread. Being old enough to remember the days of Ago, Hailwood etc I would say that this years line up especially hits the spot for me by comparison to the 'golden era'. In all road races, I like to see competition. By that I mean that standing at the outset of a mass start and not being totally sure who is going to win the race irrespective of my favorites.

I find this prospect more exciting because of the mass start rather than the timed event like the MGP or TT as I personally favour mass start races....but that's my choice.

However, in the absence of 'fairing bashing' and masses of riders heading into entry points of corners only wide enough for half a bike, I find that this years TT has a special excitement for me whereby, like it has been stated, any one of 10 guys could win any of the races...especially the SBK races..... Now in my opinion - that more than makes up for my particular preferences during races....Not being disrespectful to previous TT's I believe this years will be more of a 'race' to me, rather than a procession

The responses certainly prove that "one man's meat..." still applies!
For me, I used to love both disciplines - the close racing on short circuits, fairing bashing and all, and the sheer brilliance of seeing the very best of rider and machine taking on the challenge of the TT course.
Good close short-cicuit races did not need to have the top and/or most skillful riders to be exciting - in fact sometimes it was much more fun when the level of expertise was....let's say...not the very best!
However, when it comes to the Isle of Man, surely the enjoyment is/was in seeing who handled the section where you had chosen to watch the most skillfully - fastest through, under the most control - as any competition for position was only known from the radio commentary (unless you were a real geek with clipboard and stopwatches)! The TT is not a race, but a time-trial, and for me the result was almost secondary. The only exception to this was during the production races, which were massed start (in classes), and as I vividly remember from '73 could be very exciting to take part in, and hopefully to watch. It was...erm interesting to watch Mr Robb's leather-clad bum ahead, rather than be told by a sign-board that he was xx seconds or minutes ahead!
The biggest shame is, for me, the sameness - the same noise, look - across all the solo classes, where the biggest technical difference seems to be the colour of the electric-start button. This is by no means solely the fault of the TT organisers, but changes insisted on by the FIM to twins/six-speeds etc. in the attempt to cut costs. As to closeness of the races, perhaps they will be, and the range as to who will come out on top is wide, but a look back at the results from yesteryears will show that it was in reality not much different to the last few years - just more exciting and exotic.

At the risk of sounding sychophantic (?) I agree with Peter again. I suppose I occasionally break out the rose tinted specs but I do miss the variety of classes. To me a 600 looks just like a 1000 and doesn't sound much different either and as such I'm beginning to lean towards the Manx where, thank God, there is still some variety both in the sound and appearance of the bikes.

I supply photos for another site's database and frankly I got bored wading through this years shots (all 2300 of 'em) because it was the same 60-odd guys every race on identikit machinery. The TT needs at least one more solo race for bikes that are different to the current classes and I guess that's where Paul Philips' next challenge lies.

I think a lot of us have a philosophical difference here in our interpretation of the idea of racing. (Whew!)
I think that over the years a difference developed between short circuit and TT/Manx racing.
Particularly in the MGP, a lot of people consider that their racing is very much a solo effort, with them racing against themselves (to better their time/skill) and against the course itself.
So, if you have a relatively slow bike, you can still perform well by getting the most possible out of it. This can be done without reference to anyone else in the race.
Perhaps an element of that had also developed in the TT, and maybe (just maybe!) it was inappropriate, (given the speeds of top bikes/riders) or perhaps it defined the inherent difference between the Manx and the TT.
Short circuit racing (massed starts etc), and the "new" TT are very much about racing each other.
BUT both are challenges and races...
Have I got a point???

Helen: I do not believe that you can race someone you cannot see - you can only race yourself against the course, unless you have on-board telephony of some sort telling you where the others are in comparison to your self? Events like the TT are, and always have been, more akin to rallying - do the very best you can, and see where you stand afterwards. It is part of the fascination and difference, not a criticism. The Mountain Course needs to be ridden intelligently, taking loads of factors into account - the weather, how your bike is performing, how the tyres feel, even how you as a rider are feeling, and the advice always was to ride at nine-tenths, because on proper roads no-one can ride all the time precisely - the other tenth is what keeps you alive! In the middle of all that, if you can calculate how fast all the others are going and adjust your pace to be that little bit faster than them, then you deserve sainthood, the Nobel Prize, and an honourary world championship!
That sort of "racing" is not for everyone - the late great Barry Sheene hated it straight away, and said to me "how do I know how fast I have to go if I can't even see who is racing?". He never "got it", and in no way did this detract from his standing as the top rider of his era, it just meant he was not a TT rider.
To see Ralph Bryans, Luigi Taveri, Jim Redman, Phil Read, Mike Hailwood, Giacomo Agostini, Kel Carruthers, Tommy Robb, Chas Mortimer.....all of whom were as brilliant at Spa, Brands Hatch, Barcelona as they were at the TT, jumping from a single-cylinder 4-speed right-hand change, to a five or six-cylinder six-speed left-hand change, with their choice of tyres restricted to 'black and round, or black and round, all with knobbles on' demonstrated the wide scope of just how good they were on the rough, the smooth, the wet and the dry -and they had to push-start every time!

This has been probably the best thread in ages.
After reading the postings I agree that it is the strongest ' field' we've seen for a very long time. I think the field was strong in the mid 80's to early 90's too though.
There were alot of Britsish Superbike riders who were regular TT riders (or whatever BSB was in those days ).
I guess after reading all the posts the answer is simple, but acheiving the answer is hard.
We need todays field on yesterdays race programme.
1000cc proddy races, Superbike races, 125 races, 250 races. 400 supersport races. What about reintroduction of the 6 lap 250 race? It was 350s in those days I think, but a modern 250 should be capable.
Ok so the last bit was a dream but wouldn't it be good to see these races full with the riders of today?
Cheers
Russ

The problem in finding another category of race is, I suppose, finding something that's acceptable to 'the stakeholders', whoever or whatever they may be.

This isn't the first time I've mentioned this but...

...Unlimited capacity twins & triples and let 250GP bikes in if anyone wants to race them. There are far more manufacturers that could field bikes competitively and they'd be lapping quick enough to go out in practice at the same time as the current solo classes, so Paul why not go and sell this idea to:

DUCATI
TRIUMPH
BENELLI
APRILIA
HONDA
SUZUKI
MORINI
BUELL etc...

There's probably more but it's been a long day and I'm knackered! Different looking and sounding bikes that can fit in with the current scheduling and that are already raced on the mainland in sound of Thunder type classes. What's not to like about that?

A great idea sticky, But how about a European TT class.

Only bikes made in Europe would be eligible; Aprilia, Benelli, BMW, Cagiva, Ducati, KTM, MV, Triumph and the French "V" twin thingy I can't remember the name of. :?

I'm sure that formulae could be worked out. One off frames (Harris Spondon etc.) if required, but all engines and gearboxes must remain of european manufacture.

The manufacturers would be far more receptive to such a class as there would be no Japanese factories involved so the smaller factories would get far more coverage than they would competing in the other classes.

Look at the coverage MV have got for one Superstock entry

This is not an anti Japanese stance just an idea that could involve other European 'bike companies that don't bother now because of the investment that would be required to even try to compete with 'YamaHonKwakuki'

We could have an all "2 stroke" race the same day.....'Vive la Difference' 8)

Vive Voxan!

Thanks Helen VOXAN