PLease excuse me if this topic has been discussed before as i have just joined the site on recomendation from Cargo,and not had the time to check all the topics.With all the road improvements made on the TT course especially in the last couple of years surely the course must be much shorter than say 10 years ago,i think if you fit a extremely accurate mileometer to a top riders bike the distance would be no where near 37 and 3/4 miles which brings into dispute lap records etc etc :?Please excuse my avatar as i think it has been nobled by a certain moderator

madmanx...........what a great user name I'm surprised it was available :shock:

This topic has had some discussion in the past.
If you would like to review it use the forum search thingy.

If you don't like the avatvar you can remove it yourself
I like it :wink:

Just be glad I didn't use that picture of you with Linzi Drew

130mph lap my ****. I first raced in the IOM in the early sixties and the course had no resemblance to what it is now, I would think that anyone who had been there then and not witnessed the changes and straightening and chopping of corners and bends over the years and returned now they would not recognise the place.

I suppose you have got to keep the spin and hype going about amazing speeds to compensate for the lack of actual racing time and laps.

there have bewen endless calls for the course to be re-measured on these forums, that will be the day, so don't hold your breath

Well, I too have called for a re-measure, but I know of a few road riders who have measured it (albeit, with un-officiated equipment) and actually reckon it's MORE than 37.73m.

I had the argument with Mr N Jefferies (Hi Nick!) during the TT about the course changes over the years, he too was dismissing the course as less of a challenge than it was years ago, with the constant changes and 'straightening' or corners, I argued that it is merely a different challange now and would he prefer that we still stopped to open and shut gates on the lap?!!

With all due respect, the machinery is SO much faster now, that mere kinks become huge bends (as I'm sure both Tom and Nick can relate to) and with improvements in machinery, improvements in the road surfaces have been needed too. The TT is still the greatest challenge to man (or woman!) and machine and you need change in order to progress, we should never be dismissive of progress... just my humble opinion.

Cheers
Carolynn

I agree with Carolyn,I did a lap on my brand new blade on two occasions and both times got 38.2 miles on the trip meter.Could Honda clock be that far out? maybe.

I won't mention Ballabeg!

tell you what.. why don't all of the manxies do a lap on an aranged date ( good excuse for a few beers and a bbq and work out an average........

I personally feel that the new 130mph lap, is a bit of a nonsense, with the drastic course alterations at Windy Corner and Brandish, and it was even broken with slowing up to come into the pits.
How much faster can they travel through these two corners than before.
Another part of the course, which was altered years ago is Quarry Bends, which is now vertually straight through.
The only way to get a true comparisum, would be to recreate the once tight bends with traffic cones, and then try and break the 130 barrier.


Quarry Bends are straight ??? :shock: :shock:

Hmmm, Beepee... that hurt!! Yes, not my finest hour, just bloody lucky not to have broken anything! Did you see it?

Cheers
Carolynn.x

Hope you're ok... you gave us all a fright!

No Carolynn I didn't see it but I know a man who did.I am truly glad you are okay.

Well well. Carolynn, I remember the conversation with you regarding the new "corner" at Brandish. You liked it, I did not. But before I go any further, I must say that I applaud everyone who competes around the TT course,male and female, and as for John McGuiness, I think his performance was outstanding, in terms of,skill, consistency, smoothness, and for a thoroughly professional approach.
However. My point to Carolynn was that the two new corners are debasing everyone's speed from recent years. No I don't expect to open gates, nor do I expect the old sixties surface with its concave camber, and melting tar, but I do expect the course to virtually cover the ground it once did. I don't really think that Quarry bends should have been tranformed either, definitely not Windy, but as for Brandish,... well!! What's that all about? The Highways Board have stuck two fingers up to those who have an interest in the TT course, and allegedly made the change to increase safety for the normal road user. No way will safety increase. Mr Clio and GTI Golf driver (aged 21) will be on their way up to Creg Ny Baa at least 40-60mph more than they used to, thus the closing speed with traffic coming down the hill has massively increased. Same with Windy. Mr C & G are arriving at the 32nd milestone far faster than they used to, and guess what? They're having accidents. Non during TT fortnight because of the one way system thank god, but sadly it won't be long, in my opinion, before they're crashing in numbers at the 32nd, and then, hey presto, the 32nd will be opened out.
I am totally against improving the TT course for "safety", if it means speeds increase for the normal road user. If they felt they HAD to open Brandish out they could have just improved visibility. At the very worst they could have made it dual carriageway, with the TT course following the old route,i.e uphill route. I spoke to the new Minister of Highways, David Anderson about all this, and he said that it would cost too much!! But the old road already existed.
Then he told me about the new tunnel they are going to dig to link the fire station with the Hospital!!!!! The dual carriageway at Brandish would be petty cash compared to that.
Anyway, as for the new Brandish, Ian Hutch told me it's just down a gear and keep driving. That is not the same test of skill as it used to be. Still skillful, yes, especially at 150mph, but it is NOT what the TT course is about. The time saved, I estimate as 6-8seconds. What did John knock off the record? I think it was 8 seconds.
So in fact they haven't gone faster than last year, it just looks that way.Why not dig a tunnel from Gooseneck to Governors, and be done with it? Anyone else think like me?

Always excellent and considered comments from Mr Nick.

As a spectator and fan for many years, I have taken photos at many well-known vantage spots and also used a video camera mounted on the roof of my car (on a roof rack) in order to see the changing lines.

I am certainly not a TT rider but have enough knowledge to see how much racing lines have changed at certain points over the years I have attended and in fact on the early morning practice simulation Nick and I looked at one of my many books from 1947 which shows the bends as they were 60 years ago.

I truly find John McGuinness to be an excellent TT ambassador and superb rider but think that his achievement could be slightly tarnished by the many course "improvements" which make it seem that the bikes are more powerful each year....Honda wanted 130mph on the 100th anniversary (and on Johns 13th win)

What would the lap record be if Formula 1 bikes were still ridden and raced on this new 2007 course ?? Any comment Nick ??

Big business, it'll be the ruination of all sport, look at formula 1 cars !!!

Just look at this and see what the course was like 60 years ago when I first put my dainty feet on manx soil...............

http://www.ianhuntly.co.uk/ttcors47.htm

Thewitch and Beepee,

Thank you and sorry for giving people a fright, I will be fine in a few days though, I'm just a bit battered and bruised right now.

Thanks again,

Carolynn.x

Ah just like being in the pub.... loads of BS and "when I were a lad"...

Perhaps someone can get Bob Mac's 100mph bike out of storage or the museum, make sure it's up to spec and then do a couple of laps at race speed and not merely as a demo.. and see it if makes the ton or more?

So the track has changed over time, it's called progress.

In the same 50 years we have landed men on the moon and even had a supersonic passenger aircraft. For those of you still in 1957 it was called Concorde. We even had a woman prime minister in the UK! It's true!

Motorcycles have even managed to have 2 or even more cylinders, even British nails had two or three and recently they managed to get 4 in a Triumph. Yes, FOUR cylinders! We don't even have to make dear old Geoff Duke ride an Italian bike any more to get that thrill!

InvictaMoto Wrote:Ah just like being in the pub.... loads of BS and "when I were a lad"...

Perhaps someone can get Bob Mac's 100mph bike out of storage or the museum, make sure it's up to spec and then do a couple of laps at race speed and not merely as a demo.. and see it if makes the ton or more?

So the track has changed over time, it's called progress.

In the same 50 years we have landed men on the moon and even had a supersonic passenger aircraft. For those of you still in 1957 it was called Concorde. We even had a woman prime minister in the UK! It's true!

Motorcycles have even managed to have 2 or even more cylinders, even British nails had two or three and recently they managed to get 4 in a Triumph. Yes, FOUR cylinders! We don't even have to make dear old Geoff Duke ride an Italian bike any more to get that thrill!

I like your style, and of course your right ! 8)

Was a few rider`s that got close to 130 but only 1 did it........didnt Martin do a 129 +?............anyway my son enjoyed his first TT trip...... said all the onbike stuff website`s etc........just dont do it justice.

Thankyou to John for the picture in the pits and also Nick too.

Mr 130mph and my son Alan.



Nick plus my star struck son.



Nick and his n1 fan

As Mr Jefferies said, the people usually fixing things for the best at one place just move the problem further down the road, and make the next corner even worse than before. A bit like asylem seekers... :wink:

Loved the old photos, and its amazing how little has actually changed. The biggest change I noticed was... of course... no pub at the Bung. Guess they only survived on passing trade.... or when the horse got a little tired it was somewhere to stop over :wink:

Well my only point is, machines change, the riders change, the speed changes a nd the course changes. The three things that don't change.... the weather, the loe for the racing and least of all the consistant incompitance of the Steam Packet. So all in all it evens out quite nicely.