+ a very big round of applause.
Thanks for that passionate expression of what the game's about.
Now you've done it once, we'll be expecting more posts.

Nice Letter Steve, i must have missed sonmething here re the patons, however on the sunday night prior the race, i was talking to a few english guys, who were involved in the classic racing, and in their words, If the Paton or honda (Loughers) were to win to morrow, prepare yourself for some fun, cos when they go to the scrutineers bay to be checked, the fun will start!!, i was gutted to hearb this, and argued, surely these guys wouldnt waster all that time etc, to have illegal bikes!, anyway i agrued that they were talking shxxx!, and told them to put their money where their mouth was, but that didnt happen!
Anyway, it was a brilliant race, i thoroughly enjoyed it, it was great to hear the sounds of the Paton again,(i headr it last yr, but i think you only got a lap done Steve, and the firstntime i heard a Paton was when Billie Nelson rode the Hannah Paton at the NW200, quite a few yrs ago.
And to you Steve, i thought it was a wonderful performance, to be up there on the podium, along with someone, who is regarded as one of to days top road racers (Farquhar) is no mean achievement.
Baylon

for pics etc from MGP;(and other events)
http://www.irishracephotography.com
under topic ;racing photos.

I read this stuff about wheel and tyres sizes on another site and to be honest dismissed it as nonsense,
If anyone things Jeff Kirby and his team would miss something as obvious or turn a blind eye to something like this then they need their heads examined.
Welcome to TTwebsite Steve and well done at the Manx (you and young Oliver).


I spoke to you briefly during the Manx something about it being very hard to watch the "young pup" racing.
Also many years ago for the TT I stayed in the B&B at the top of Palace Road ( ??) where your garage used to be......demolished now I think

Direct quote from Harvey following the question 'would you have allowed the tyre to be used' No!

From Dunlop themselves, 'is this a dual rated tyre' No!

Sorry Steve, although the posting is well put and emotionally charged, it does seem the rules were, lets says bent slightly.

I notice in your posting you say the tyre was used (at a short circuit) as the bike felt flighty at speed, I bet it felt more than that at the MGP........if the goal posts are moved to allow the use of the tyre where will it end.

And no this is not sour grapes just the same as anyone just wanting their say.

07 manx regs eligibility no 4.

No hand cut slicks or wet weather tyres will be permitted and max tyre width shall be 4.00 for 250/350cc machines and 4.5 for 500cc machines.
Dual sized tyres will be rated as a mean of the two indicated sizes. Tyres must be fitted with inner tubes.

This to me makes the tyre used rated as a 4.375 by the rules I entered by.
Everytime I've asked Harvey about something he gets the rule book out and checks the facts. A very fair man.

If Dunlop do not consider it a dual sized tyre why do they put two sizes on the tyre?

Old man, (Sorry to call you this but I do not know who you are)- No rules were bent from what I can see.

Flighty enough to take the fastest lap last year and the year before on the small tyres! Perfect steering this year.

I just want to put the facts for everybody to see. I'm not taking it as sour grapes just wanting my say as you do.

[quote="an old man returns"]

Direct quote from Harvey following the question 'would you have allowed the tyre to be used' No!

From Dunlop themselves, 'is this a dual rated tyre' No!

quote]

The Dunlop tyre pictured (same as used) is marked 3.75/5.00 and is marked as such to show the user the aspect ratio thus telling you its a low profile 5.00 inch tyre.

Although I appreciate we can all have our say, whatever a persons interpretation is I would take the manufacturers response. And I agree Harvey is a fair man.....did you ask him about the tyre, because I did.

There ends it for me and my sponsor, who was there at the conversation with Harvey........

Its a shame your achievements have to be listed (fantastic and to be proud of they are too) to lend weight to your point of view, being successful does not mean that your opinion is more valuable than others or for that matter, correct....fastest lap on tyres the same as everyone else is no mean feat.

Personally, I think it is money more than anything that is causing these problems.

However you battle the rules, make allowances for this and for that..it always comes down to one thing..money - who can afford what. As steve says he is pushing the rules..as everyone has the opportunity too.. but that costs and not your average bloke can do that.

I couldnt care less about whether Linsdell and Farquar are on a slightly oversized tyre.. fact is..they probably would get round 6 secs slower if it was legal..and I am not saying it was illegal..I am hypothesising - if in fact that is a word !

All I am saying..is I think money is destroying it...

I am manx ...I have dreams..or rather..had.. now I see TT stars getting paid by sponsors good money and very good money to ride their almost factory backed bikes that are out of the league for the everyday person..(and the everyday person effectively, equates to the majority of the field of every classic race.)

My point is..you cant blame the people for doing what they are doing.. the fact is money is behind it all.

Unless you change that fact.... then it will continue. That lies with the organisers.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Tony

I've read these posts and have ended up somewhat confused ( not difficult), but what is a dual sized tyre????
Does it expand or shrink or what?? :?: :?: :?:

I might be wrong but I seem to think that it is something to do with when a tyre width is measured.

Just inflated and siting on a rim a tyre will be narrower than when it's fitted to the bike and loaded with the weight of the bike bearing down on it.

Am I right ?

I was under the impression that it depended on the width of the rim. A tyre mounted on a WM1 (1.6" wide) rim would be considerably narrower than one mounted on a WM3 (2.15" wide) rim.

Course I could be wrong.

Personally I feel that if the tyre is checked and accepted by scrutineers their decision should be accepted. There's no point arguing after the event, and I don't believe that the tyre would have made a significant difference to the speed of the Paton in any case.

Steve's point of view is interesting, and well done to him for caring enough to come on here and explain it. I don't entirely agree with it though, my reasons being similar to Tobes. In the TT you expect to see professional riders and vast sums of money spent. In the Manx you don't. The ethos of the event is that it is an amateur one, right down to no start or prize money being paid. Us lot who race there do so out of our own pockets and the costs are rising every year. In 2007 the entry fields in the classics were smaller than ever, despite the fact that the classic scene is thriving elsewhere. I suggest to you that the reason is the ever rising costs coupled with being treated with contempt by certain official bodies.

Based on that I can't agree that spending many thousands (and I include the heavily-sponsored single riders who can afford to burn up 5 engines in practice and throw another one in) is in the spirit of the event. I know you'll never prevent it - riders have always tried to spend their way to the front - but when costs start rising vertically many people will feel that enough is enough and dwindling numbers will kill the event.

I'm sure the glory of winning would be less in the knowledge that it was ones own actions that were instrumental in killing the event.

Agree with you again Tomcat, Having professional riders looks good for the media guys, but for those of us that strive just to get a rep, only to find that certain riders who go flat out all the way, rob them of their only goal. i know of a few who are saying that they can't justify the cost. Both the 350 and 500 classic races are getting dominated by the money men. They need to reduce the financial burden by altering the course license, then we might increase the grids

IMHO I would expect the tyre rule to be implemented for the Manx.

However the rest almost certainly won't be. I don't believe they will want to complicate things by making rules that apply to certain machines only. If you look at the way both groups have approached this over the years CRMC has been more willing to make machine specific rules.

This is just my opinion.

an old man returns Wrote:"Applies to Paton 500cc GP twin: The use of any externally fitted oil pump is prohibited. Exhaust
systems must be of the �low level� type as fitted originally. The use of disc brakes is prohibited.
Implementation � wef 01/12/07

Applies to all up to 500cc Group 1 Period 1 & 2 machines: Only the following rear tyres may be fitted:

1) Any 19� tyre

2) The following 18� tyres: a) Dunlop 3.50 x 18, 3.50/3.25 x 18 KR124 and KR124A

b) Avon AM22 110/80 x 18 Rear Fitment.

Please note that all tyres must conform to ACU and CRMC regulations. Maximum rim size WM3.
The decision of the sub committee is final.
Implementation � wef 01/12/07"

Direct from CRMC web site, will the MGP rules follow their direction?

The MMCC have largely used the CRMC formulae, but be careful what you quote. Senior MGP machinery is mostly Group 1, period 2. These are allowed more latitude eg the use of disc brakes.

http://www.crmc.co.uk/2008/CRMC%20Eligib...202008.pdf