10 laps for a 125 TT over the Billown course!!! My,my,that is just over one lap of the mountain.Whilst I am really pleased for the two stroke riders,that distance can NEVER be classed as a true TT.Just my opinion :roll:

Well said Hilary. I TOTALLY agree. The lads that do the winning will know that too. However, I am particularly concerned that clearly short circuit tactics will be used to secure a "TT" win, on what is in my opinion a very dangerous circuit.One reason why the TT doesn't start in pairs was to stop a short circuit sprint through Hillberry and down to Governors. I never liked racing on Billown, and I know lots of others of the same mindset. Good luck to those that do, it's a free world, just!
I mentioned earlier, I am delighted, like Hilary that the two strokes have a race, but why not call it the "Southern TT Championship", or words to that effect? There is just no need for this. BUT, Is this the thin end of the wedge? Is this the circuit "they" have in mind for the future, when the anti TT brigade finally have their way?
I wonder that the "organisers" haven't realised that the Clypse circuit failed. It was too difficult to organise, and the winners didn't feel that they had won a TT.

Come on, Nick.

Nobody, but NOBODY, learns from history.

Certainly not the kiddies who now run the show.

Note -- "show".

As I've said before, grumpy old curmudgeon that I am, it's not sport any more, nor has it been for quite a few years.

It's Show Business :!: :!:

It is sad, however, to see the excellent Southern 100 Club enticed into all this . . . . . . .

Its not and never could be, a TT but it IS an extra set if races and some more of the 2-stroke.
Lets not knock it but give it our support.

UNBELIEVABLE THAT ONE EXTRA LAP DISTINGUISHES A "TT" RACE FROM A "SUPPORT" RACE !!!!!! :?:

The TT has hardly been announced as a brand than it is being watered down.
Talk about squandering the family jewels!
All those who dared to disagree with the TT program, and called for more variety and the return of smaller capacity classes, have been fobbed off with a Mickey Mouse TT to shut them up.
Drawing the excellent organisational reputation of the Billown people into the equation, borders on duplicity.
So of course the races will be hard fought and enjoyed by the spectators, but everyone will know, perhaps most of all the riders, that they are not TTs.
How will the winners feel on award night when they are announced as "TT" winners beside those riders who have won over six laps of the mountain course?

"The bargain was struck, and the cow exchanged for a few paltry beans."
Jack and the Beanstalk

I am dismayed at the tone that this thread is taking! and don't think it's fair for people to speculate about how riders might feel at the end of one of the new races at Billown. OK, we all have a similar opinion, I suspect, about the "name" of the races, but "what's in a name?"! I am convinced that NO rider, having completed the 125 or 250 race, will be thinking,"oh no, what a waste of my time and effort, that wasn't the TT after all! Why did I bother?!" Any rider who enters will do so because he/she WANTS to race, LOVES to race, relishes the challenge that ANY course presents to him/her and is very happy to have another opportunity, where not too many now exist, to race their favourite bikes!
What's more, the fans get another opportunity to see 2-strokes in the IOM.
GIVE IT A CHANCE!!!!!

Well said Maggie. Look, we all know it isn't a real TT but that isn't the point. The point is to raise the profile of 2 stoke racing and who knows where that might lead - maybe back to the Mountain circuit. Everyone that enters these races will KNOW it's 10 laps round Billown and I can only presume that if they don't think it's worth winning then they won't bother entering!

I agree with Maggie and Sticky. The important people here are the riders. If they don't like it they will say so and not enter. It is my information that they were consulted and want it. The fact is that they voted with their wheels as far as these classes on the mountain course was concerned and didn't turn up, in their droves.
I have already heard of a couple of new bikes purchsed, and they will be there. If enough people buy new bikes or start racing what they've got who knows what the next stage might be.
In the meantime, I for one will really enjoy it. Safe riding folks!

Hang on. No point in throwing the toys out the pram and saying "This is not a TT because I say so". If the riders don't enter, then there is no TT. That's what was happening. The TT lives ir dies by the number who want to do it.
I can't understand either the idea you should be able to dictate what they ride, what the races are and not pay anything at all. The TT costs a fortune to run, the bikes cost the riders and sponsors a mint, so they call the shots.
The Isle of Man gives up its roads and many peoples time for the TT, so it should get something back hence the marketing stuff. What else do you get for nothing, while seeing the people who provide it pay?

If Paul Philips is looking in, what happens if there are say 70-75 credible entries for the 250 (for example) - enough to run a proper TT on the Mountain? To be honest, if you got 60-65 it'd be enough to run a 3 lapper IMO... :wink:

I am saddened to see how easily people are bought off - I am with Nick in thinking that the Billown circuit is extremely dangerous - much more so than having a mass start on the TT circuit, having had one of my most enjoyable races in the Production TT in '73.
I still fear that racing there on the extremely powerful motorcycles of today is a recipe for a multiple crash, and if a tragedy happens, it would definitely mean the end of road racing in the Isle of Man.
As for it still being a TT..........the Americans may be able to fool themselves that a "World Series" winner means they are the best team in the whole world, but I don't believe that any racer or fan will accept the result on this tiddly little place as having any standing compared to the Mountain Circuit!
By all means have the races, but they should never be called anything to do with the TT.
Watching the events of the last few years from the sidelines has really been sad - a bit like seeing a much-loved father or uncle go from robust health to a shrivelled old man in the corner of a nursing home - odd flashes of his former self, but less and less people around who knew him when he was vibrant and truly alive.

Just read around the other forums, consensus seems the same everywhere. By all means have the Billown races for 125 and 250 and enjoy and support them, but no way call them TTs.

"In my opinion, to hand out TT replicas for a race of that kind is not a good move."
Robert Dunlop 5 times TT winner

I completely understand the position taken by Nick, Peter & Tom and if I'd competed myself perhaps I'd feel the same. But, for once, someone has taken an initiative to try and put 2 stroke road racing back in the public eye. It ain't perfect but if it's all we have for now, lets try and make it as good as possible.

I'm convinced that if this is a success it will lead to a proper 250 TT again. The class died before because nobody had the imagination to try and keep it going. Lumping it in with the 600s was never going to help because all the best potential 250 runners would have been already entered on a 600.

If John McG and other front runners enjoy themselves maybe they'll WANT to race them on the Mountain again. If the top guys want it then it'll happen - won't it?

I'll climb off me soap box now... :wink:

There always has been a two stroke race for both 125 and 250 at the Steam Packet meeting along with 600s and 1000s. So it's nothing new or special to see two stroke there :?

And the prize money on offer at the Steam Packet meeting has always been good.

So just what is it that will convince say John Mcguinness to go and ride in that meeting? Something he has never shown any intention of doing before ?

In many ways it's great this meeting is getting some well deserved attention and I wish them well but somethings just not quite right :?

Confused

Here's a thought.......................There will be NO 400s at the Steam Packet meeting and that would be my prefered ride. So I could enter and ride my 600 in both the 600 and 1000 races..............these races are not "TT Races"............and so have no effect on me doing the Manx.

Yet if I was to buy/borrow/steal a 125 or a 250 and ride it in the same meeting on the same day on the same curcuit I'd be excluded from riding in the Manx.

Or am I just stupid :?:

Cargo?
You?
Stupid?

Far from it my friend.
There is no sense in some of the rules that seem to be involved with the "Steam Packet TT."
I understand why some folk think that those of us who are not totally
enamoured with the idea of these races. They see us as nit pickers and nay sayers.
Well, I for one truly wish to see these 2-stroke races
TRULY.
Bring it on!

But (at the risk of being boring!) they should not be "TTs"