cargo Wrote:The whole find someone to blame and sue them culture make me sick to the back teeth.

And soon enough the people who indulge in this kind of legal action will destroy not just road racing but all motorsport............

Here in Ireland the process has already begun

Cargo your a family man who enjoys his racing, you also bring your kids to the events, what if. (and I hope it never happens) some freak accident happens in the paddock ie the lads in the next tent are having a Barbi and the gas canister explodes and your kids are badly injured and required long expensive treatment, what would your attitude be then.

lets face it we live in a changing world, get used to it.
I would also give you an example of an accident that happened to one of my staff. Fell of the bottom step of a step ladder, badly broken ankle, off work for 3 months insurance paid him out £35200-00, so the claim made by the spectator is cheap in my opinion.

deleted by moderator

No matter how safe you make an event freak accidents do happen
look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXekPe0a20s

Colin going on what you saying & your views no one would dare step outside there front door .
Also going on your views on the blame culture your employee should be suieng you not claiming off his insurance , which all employees without sick schemes or poor sick schemes would have any way .
Your example is totally irrelevant to the issue here .

shaun hogg Wrote:Colin going on what you saying & your views no one would dare step outside there front door .
Also going on your views on the blame culture your employee should be suieng you not claiming off his insurance , which all employees without sick schemes or poor sick schemes would have any way .
Your example is totally irrelevant to the issue here .

Shaun
My employee did suie me and my insurance paid out, as to sick pay we all dont work in factories,Banks or offices in the building trade its a different matter, employees are only entitled to about £86 pw sick pay.

I note that Helen has deleted part of a previous post, that goes to show that some here are one sided and cant see the greater picture, does a spectator not have the same right to compensation in the same way as an official if injured. I would like to see me proved wrong on this one if you all believe that we all know the risks at motorsport events.
Oh and let me make the point of saying that road racing events have to have third party insurance in place before an event can take place, so whats the big problem.

I fully support The Witch and her action in deleting part of Colins posting. I know what it said

As for my children if they get injured by an exploding gas canister I reckon that the blame lies with the gas cainster company if they produced a faulty canister or maybe the fault lies with the people who produced the fitting on the barbie could even be that the guys having a barbie were doing something wrong or dangerous.......................nothing to do with racing.

As ever I fail to see your point


If you insurance paid out to your employee it means that you must have been at fault in someway....................

If your employee fell off the bottom step of a ladder and there was no fault by you he would not have succeeded in his claim if he lied to win his claim I suggest you do something to improve your employee selection proceedures

Once again I fail to see the connection with racing.


What I can tell you is that I have personally been injured many times both in and out of work and on and off a motorcycle.
Not once have I ever made a claim.
Why ? Because in each and every case to a greater or lesser degree fault lay with my own stupidity or error of judgment.

I hope our cameraman friend considers if he did made an error of judgement or act stupidly ? Before he procedes furthur.

Life is very very dangerous in the end it kills us all

Cargo, they were only examples of how a claim may be made and what brings a person to make a claim. Were you ever put in a position that you could not pay your bills through an accident or were you covered by your employer.

Why do you and other riders have to take out insurance before you can race.
What does it cover.
How many times have we witnessed race bikes taking a public road back after a breakdown, are they insured and if so by who.

If the insurance that riders or clubs take out covers nothing then why have it.

Ive also heard of a case recently in Ireland where a rider is threatening to take legal action out on another rider after they came together.

At the end of the day as I said in my first post, pay the man, at least it would show that Road Racing takes care of its own. It would also get better press thab what its getting now.

Don't pay him!
However well intentioned, it would seem very dangerous to be setting precedent too lightly.
The fact that we are forced to pay insurance to participate in something does not make insurance right. It doesn't absolve us of our personal responsibility for our own decisions and actions.
Encouraging litigation and apportioning blame is the thin end of the wedge, leading to a risk averse society.
Of course if that is the society you enjoy then it is only a few hours away by jet.

"Whatever their other contributions to our society, lawyers could be an important source of protein."
Guindon cartoon caption

Well all this chatter about 'suing this' and 'liability that' has got me thinking and on reflection I have decided to sue someone myself...

I was reading the Road Racing Ireland magazine report on the Kells meeting where Ryan and Keith were at it hammer and tongs. Having seen the actual racing as it happened, the report took me back to the excitement and drama of each race as I re-visited it on the pages of the magazine...... needless to say I got so engrossed that I cricked my neck whilst leaning across the coffee table for my cold Guinness. In light of some of the previous dialogue I reckon I have a perfectly legitimate claim....trouble is...who do i SUE?

YOURSELF ........................

Why on earth did you position your table in such a way that you needed to reach across it to get your drink..................

Like I said one must first question ones own stupidity first before looking for others to blame

Favourite line of the legal "profession" - "We'll give it a run and see what we can get for you".

larryd Wrote:Favourite line of the legal "profession" - "We'll give it a run and see what we can get for you".

Translates to.................... no win no fee

I am right behind you CB, slack furniture designers have been getting away with it for too long. Legs too short, slippery surfaces, no safety warning signs, no built in cup holders. Go for them!

May I suggest the Safe Bedside Table.

cargo Wrote:

larryd Wrote:Favourite line of the legal "profession" - "We'll give it a run and see what we can get for you".

Translates to.................... no win no fee

Always did, Cargo - even when "no win no fee" was illegal!!

I see nobody can come up with the answers to this yet
Why do you and other riders have to take out insurance before you can race.
What does it cover.
How many times have we witnessed race bikes taking a public road back after a breakdown, are they insured and if so by who.

If the insurance that riders or clubs take out covers nothing then why have it.

From another forum the views by others on this topic.

http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.p...opic=23478

I take no sides on this issue, just as I would take no issue with a rider sueing their sponsor of machine or compoments manufacturer from hundreds of thousands in the event of a mechanical or component failure.

However case law rules in the judicial system and may or may not apply in Manx law, that may or may not apply, but may apply stricktly under EU law which would definitely be applicable in this case because the IOM is a member state.

Over 60 years ago long before everyone claimed for everything and no win no fee was ever heard of there was a ruling by Lord Denning Master of the Rolls reckoned by most to be one of if not the cleverest and fairest legal brains in history.

Only cases that had gone through the entire legal system unresolved are ruled on by the Master of the Rolls whose rulings on case law are then set in stone.

Halsey V Esso Oil 1956.

Denning began his final ruling which runs to 40 A4 pages in tiny print.

In the Case of Henry Halsey aged 82 0f 28 Windham Street, Fulham in the County of London a poor man of limted means and education and a retired Thames riverman, it matters not in the eyes of the law if the man be a Serf or a Lord with many Castles and Lands both are equal in the eyes of the Assizes and if any man comes to harm, inconvenience or discomfort for whatever reason or no matter howsoever caused the one responsible shall be liable to the other for recompense. Esso lost and it cost them in excess of over £1M even in those days, Halsey had not made his complaint to make money neither did he accept any he only waned to be put were he was in the begginning.

I cannot post the full judgement but this case law is used by the best silks to obtain a judgment that no Court can oppose and no defence will contest unless they want to rack up big fees knowing they will lose.

I think Larry wil agree with me that this is why so many cases get setttled quietly on th side even if their may be a reasonable argument but both sides will be well aware of the final resullt before they start and may well agree to argue it out until they both jave earned sufficient wages. Indeed the silk who holds the Ace may well agree to withold playing it the defendants defence Counsel until both sides have racked up the earnings or one or the other decides he's due for a round of golf or wants to see his ladyfriend to spend the fees.

This ruling by Denning had absolutely nothing to do with motorsport and hundreds of other unrelated cases it was a case relating to noise causing discomfort but is used widely to get a positive result no matter how the Claimant is affected, that ruling is a facinating and compelling read and an all powerful tool but probably not available outside of a counsels chambers library or a Court libraries cant let the plebs know these thinks can we or else they wont need us so not fat wages.

The fact is that the law is very simple it is only the Advocates, Lawyers, Briefs and Silks who like to make it complicated to become seriously rich, rights, wrongs or morals don't come into he frme only money for the legal eagles.

Where theres blame theres a claim, never a truer word spoken.

Just a note to that: The Isle of Man is not a member of the EU.

thewitch Wrote:Just a note to that: The Isle of Man is not a member of the EU.

But the UK is and we have to follow the same guidelines as the IOM is a member of the commonwealth.

I cant believe how many members of this forum are slagging this man off, he has spent many £sssssss coming to the Island to support the races, he never asked to be injured but was by a freak accident, yet not one of you have asked how he is and or has he recovered from his injuries..
Should the late Robert Dunlop have sued his sponsor after his crash at the TT, he too knew the risks. So legal action is not new to road racing

You, Tom, are as cynical as I am about the legal "profession" - perhaps more so!!

However, and much as it pains me to agree with Colin, it has to be said that anyone has a perfect right to sue anyone else at any time, irrespective of the merits or otherwise of his/her case.

Now, can we please all stop wasting our time and hot air on this one??

So long as you don't misquote me Colin I will respect your opinion.

I said ......"When it all goes pear shaped and we get hurt then it is very sad and everyone is sorry for you,"......

If you were asking people to whip around to help the poor guy, well and good, but to advocate legal action against those hard working Billown people to the detriment of the sport in general seem less than well considered to me.

I am sorry for the man but oppose his claim.

I think it's time to lay this topic to rest and await the outcomes of any possible future action.
Both these people are stated to be thinking of taking action. Lets wait and see if they do, and what happens then. No point in trying to guess the outcomes of something that may never happen.
I don't think that warrants the bile being expended here against each other.
Friends again? Promise not to stand in silly places??