I believe there has been a slight oversight in the 4 stroke rules, in that they allow 4 strokes upto 1981 with only 2 valves per cylinder.....

The 2 valves per cylinder rule is presumably to stop really fast 'modern' japanese bikes from racing, but it will also prevent Weslake/Nourish twins, this seems a ridiculous rule as the weslake twin is perfectly eligible for classic and post classic racing everywhere else.

It also seems unfair to Dave Nourish who will no doubt lose buisness as somebody choosing a classic superbike would now more likely choose a triple as it can be raced in the manx.

I believe the rule should state '2 valves per cylinder except in the case of the weslake twin'

Will Loder Wrote:I believe there has been a slight oversight in the 4 stroke rules, in that they allow 4 strokes upto 1981 with only 2 valves per cylinder.....

The 2 valves per cylinder rule is presumably to stop really fast 'modern' japanese bikes from racing, but it will also prevent Weslake/Nourish twins, this seems a ridiculous rule as the weslake twin is perfectly eligible for classic and post classic racing everywhere else.

It also seems unfair to Dave Nourish who will no doubt lose buisness as somebody choosing a classic superbike would now more likely choose a triple as it can be raced in the manx.

I believe the rule should state '2 valves per cylinder except in the case of the weslake twin'

So this also rules out the 900 honda engine from 1978 and the gsx 750 engines from 1980 ?????????????

If they have 4 valves per cylinder then yes....

Who was consulted on the regs for this class? As far as I can see quite a lot of the established 4 stroke post classic bikes have 4 valves per cylinder.......what bikes are they trying to encourage into this class?

Will Loder Wrote:If they have 4 valves per cylinder then yes....

Who was consulted on the regs for this class? As far as I can see quite a lot of the established 4 stroke post classic bikes have 4 valves per cylinder.......what bikes are they trying to encourage into this class?

Expensive collectors ones with tt riders on them ie harris peckett and mcnabb etc look in classic racer 2 for sale nothing under 10k whoever caim up with this is not not living in the real world after you buy one of these formular 1 bikes you would then have to go through it from front to back this would add thousands to what you have already spent then when the manx is over and you go home where do you ride this expensive bike then, i do most of the north west clubs and there is not a class that one of these bikes would be competitive in so you would maybe park it next to your manx senior 750 ontill the following year. i think the cut off should be increased to 1985 for 750s this would make it more affordable to the mgp riders.

cregnybaa Wrote:

Will Loder Wrote:If they have 4 valves per cylinder then yes....

Who was consulted on the regs for this class? As far as I can see quite a lot of the established 4 stroke post classic bikes have 4 valves per cylinder.......what bikes are they trying to encourage into this class?

Expensive collectors ones with tt riders on them ie harris peckett and mcnabb etc look in classic racer 2 for sale nothing under 10k whoever caim up with this is not not living in the real world after you buy one of these formular 1 bikes you would then have to go through it from front to back this would add thousands to what you have already spent then when the manx is over and you go home where do you ride this expensive bike then, i do most of the north west clubs and there is not a class that one of these bikes would be competitive in so you would maybe park it next to your manx senior 750 ontill the following year. i think the cut off should be increased to 1985 for 750s this would make it more affordable to the mgp riders.

I could not agree more. I know 2 people who have sold their 600 because they were not allowed entry to the manx. The MMCC would get alot more people wanting to ride if they let 1000cc into the senior. I am lead to belive that the junior was over subscrided, so why not run two 600 races. The manx was set up as a 'TT for amateurs' and I belive it is losing this. People doing 118+ mph laps should be doing the TT.

live42day Wrote:I could not agree more. I know 2 people who have sold their 600 because they were not allowed entry to the manx. The MMCC would get alot more people wanting to ride if they let 1000cc into the senior. I am lead to belive that the junior was over subscrided, so why not run two 600 races. The manx was set up as a 'TT for amateurs' and I belive it is losing this. People doing 118+ mph laps should be doing the TT.

The Junior MGP (and Senior )always has an excellent entry, and by allowing ex TT Riders to enter, I am concerned that some of the MGP faithfull will not get an entry. Also any ex TT rider who enters the MGP probabably received travel expenses/prize money when he previously raced in the TT, I feel this further detracts from the 'Amateur' status of the MGP. The Post Classic race is an excellent idea, though I am concerned about the possible reliability of some of the machines.

As far as I knew they were only letting current TT riders into the Classic and Post Classic races. Which I dont have too much of a problem with......as the classic races have been consistantly dominated by TT riders pretty much since there inception (Bob Heath, Bob Jackson, Ryan, Jason Griffiths, Bill Swallow, Milky, Glen English, have all raced in the TT on the same year they competed in the manx, to name but a few)........

Other than that I believe ex tt riders can enter the Lightwieght, which again I think is a good idea.....Lightweight entries have been dwindling and if we want to keep 2-strokes at the manx (which i most certainly do) then somebody will have to race them......People talk about riders like Lougher and Palmer doing it but as far as I know neither will be eligilbe unless they stop riding at the tt (and presumably now the Billown TT 125 and 250 races as they are an official TT) for a number of years. Surely letting people come back on a 250 will just allow some of the better riders who graduated to the Lighweight TT only to find it dissapeared to come back and race.... surely a good thing...

The main problem with the TT riders in the classic classes is that they usually come equipped with a factory bike.....they arent really any better than the regular manx riders, but they come on bikes with a 15mph top speed advantage, an unlimited budget and factory support......an ex TT rider on a modern 250 can only ride bikes that anyone can buy and they certainly dont cost £35,000. People wont pay professional riders to do the lightweight as it's not the 'premier' world wide event for that machine in the same way that the classic races are the premier event for those bikes. Nobody will make any money from selling 250s!

Given that the 4-valve-head 500 Weslakes are allowed in the Senior Classic I can see no good reason to exclude them from the post classic, provided it can be shown that they were being used in the capacity entered in 4-valve head form within the cutoff date.

If my experience on a 500 is anything to go by it'll be an interesting challenge for Dave to make a bigger engine last the distance

I do think we need to keep the 4-valve-head Jap bikes out though, or it'll just turn into a procession of those. As it is people are going to have to make some choices about power, handling, reliability and fuel consumption, which will be very interesting.

I think the arguments about MGP deep pockets specials will continue as long as people can get current TT riders to pilot them. As we've seen from the Paton and MV in the SCL people will pay fortunes for a bike to be used once a year. However if we didn't have the likes of Farkie and other big names hopping over from the TT for a bit of practice and pot-hunting the big budget sponsors might be less inclined to throw their money at it, and the clubmen who form the body of support, and have done for years, might feel once again the event is a bit more about them.

"Other than that I believe ex tt riders can enter the Lightwieght, which again I think is a good idea.....Lightweight entries have been dwindling and if we want to keep 2-strokes at the manx (which i most certainly do) then somebody will have to race them......People talk about riders like Lougher and Palmer doing it but as far as I know neither will be eligilbe unless they stop riding at the tt (and presumably now the Billown TT 125 and 250 races as they are an official TT) for a number of years. Surely letting people come back on a 250 will just allow some of the better riders who graduated to the Lighweight TT only to find it dissapeared to come back and race.... surely a good thing..."


"The Club has also relaxed the eligibility rules, which will now allow TT riders and previous winners of all other MGP and Classic Races to participate in the 250cc Lightweight Race. Previous race winners from the Newcomers, Classic, Lightweight and Ultra Lightweight classes will now be eligible for all classes, although Junior and Senior winners remain ineligible."





As i read the changes any current TT rider is eligible to ride in the Lightweight race (there is no mention of the exclusion of riders who have competed at world championship level as previously either) Which would mean that the riders mentioned are eligible?

Your correct, scruffy. I misread the next bit that talks about allowing TT riders back into the other manx classes....

Hi Tomcat, from my experience the 750 and 850 weslake engines are a lot more reliable than the 500, presumable because most of the same parts are used but the engine isn't rev'd nearly as hard.

Will Loder Wrote:from my experience the 750 and 850 weslake engines are a lot more reliable than the 500, presumable because most of the same parts are used but the engine isn't rev'd nearly as hard.

I'll bow to your exprience Will, and wish Dave all the best with it. Lovely bloke and has helped me out lots. My own experience FWIW comes from racing 750, 830 and 920 Nortons back in the 70s and 80s. Reliability was OK on the smaller engines but I used to get through 2 sets of cases a year with the 920, they just couldn't take the extra grunt from the engine.