Elsewhere on the internet there are already polls to see what can be done to make the TT "different"......Do we need more variation in the classes ?

I think it was Jo who said that the present set up was like having only 3 classes made into 5 by splitting them up into part one/part two. But what can be done ??

Yet in the olden days we only had 250, 350, and 500 to which was added 125, 350 and for a while even 50. Then 1000 became the top capacity to which was added 1100

The present set up is 600, 1000, plus 600, 1000 with slightly different requirements. Are these enough for such a racing festival ? One group suggest MotoGP2 machines and four-stroke 125 as classes at the TT !!

Er5s and Fazers were also mentioned !

I would like feed back on this matter.

The polls also suggest a twins class and a 450cc limit class. Or this !! see http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0...index.html

I realise the racing must reflect the machines available to the general public and also be representative of a homologated series.......

So what do you think ??

Well said Ian! I've just voted for twins, and 250 four stroke. The present bikes are far too fast for Newcomers to learn on, although surprisingly not much evidence exists that Newcomers are having accidents on the fast bikes. However, I can assure you that in my opinion they would REALLY enjoy learning the TT course on slower machinery.
The machinery today is extremely impressive........but boring.
Isn't it amazing how excited we all used to be at the sight of an overseas multi cylinder bike being on the TT course, and now we can't move for them?!!

Good man Nick, I was hoping you would respond and hope that more people will throw their thoughts into this string. No one could love the TT as much as us fans of long standing yet we are bewildered by this apparent heat 1 heat 2 set up. At this rate we will have someone else doing and winning 5 next year having the best machine and being on top form. (not necessarily in that order !)

I agree with you about our excitement at seeing one or more exotic machines contesting the races but the regs seemed to have levelled things down and other than the tickles performed by the teams with money all bikes look the same under their brightly coloured fairings. I think we should have a class where we could have machines like the Britten, and other specials made for the TT.

I also bring up the question yet again of course changes to favour the machines. I cannot believe that these rises in lap records are solely down to faster machines.......Correct me if I am on the wrong road Nick, but I and many people now think that lap speeds could actually be stable, if not dropping, if the course was left as it was.

Finally, after all these years, I still find the whole TT event something I cannot miss, not just from the races angle but meeting the people, the friends I have made over all these years, the other events we can attend, and the super Island on which the TT fortnight is held.

Hi Ian
Firstly, no person on earth has more enthusiasm than you for the TT. You have FAR more than me! I am a little burned out by all the effort I gave it, but keen none the less.
You are wrong about the course speeds. If the course was "as it was", say the 1995 course, they would still be getting round now in 17m 35 seconds, or there abouts. It's the bikes that have come on. We had 128bhp on an RC30, today they all have 180 plus. Brakes, suspension, tyres, quick shift etc, I reckon Hizzy could have lapped in 18m exactly in 1991 on a 750, albeit the best 750 EVER made! So in real terms the modern bikes are going round about 25 seconds faster than the best rider at the time, with the technology available at the time. That seems fair to me. I also think that the increase in prize money has made it more competitive. Because these riders have little opportunity to earn money anywhere else, the TT stands head and shoulders above anything they can earn elsewhere. Hizzy, and Foggy, could earn money on the short circuits, and Joey had a fair contract with Honda that gave him security. I really DO think that the current crop are having a real go, which is very exciting, but, I admit, I am scared for them all!
Finally, the TT really needs more variety, I reckon it can stand two or three more years in this guise before it needs rebranding, and then it will need doing urgently. I think everyone will have been thrilled by the racing, this year, but I came back thinking it offered a familiar mix of triumph and tragedy. My heart goes out to those families who's lives are changed by the TT for ever.

Thanks for all that Nick....

And thanks for putting the record straight..It is however surprising just how many people think that the course changes have been somewhat instrumental in the higher speeds. Is there a limit to all this ?

I think it's a travesty that you can basically come to the island with two engines and compete in every class - even the sidecars!!!

Now I know there is no way one 600 engine would do Supersport 1, Supersport 2 and two sidecar races, but you know what I'm saying!

What gets me is the lack of something different. Now of course I am FAR too young to remember the days of being excited by "the sight of an overseas multi cylinder bike being on the TT course" to quote Nick, but they all look and sound the same. It's fairly boring!!! I was glad to get my hands on the BMW's this year, just for something new to look at. In fact, I've got to the stage where I am scrutineering bikes and will be down on my knees thinking that if it wasn't for the position of the oil filter, these bikes would all look the same!

Thanks heavens for sidecars where we can at least appreciate some real racing machinery.

However, back to the original question, yes, more variation is definitely needed. Exactly what though, I'm not too sure. I struggle as I miss two-stroke racing so much (to the point of deliberately sitting by a bush in my garden that attracts hundreds of wasps and wishing the noise was the buzz of two-strokes again! Can't believe I've just admitted that on a public forum, mind!) but there's little point to me wishing we had two-strokes back when they aren't being made any more.

I agree with Nick that the bikes are too fast to learn the course properly. I don't have his vast experience of riding bikes of course, but I have always found less powerful bikes and cars far more fun because you can have a proper play with them, rather than just getting a corner before a long straight right and using the point and squirt technique.

Nick, I too had that familiar feeling of the mix of triumph and tragedy again this year. And while I would utterly defend the right of anyone to have the opportunity to race on the TT course, it is getting harder and harder (personally) to come in on a race day morning to be called together and receive the latest tragic news.

Hi Jo, Ian & Nick J, Well i read this post with interest, being old enough to see the greats from the 60.s , 70,s 80,s and beyond and also having competed in the TT myself now back at the MGP where i belong i believe. I admit i enjoyed my time at the TT made many friends and lost a few along the way lest we forget. They could combine 650 twins and Moto 450 singles in a race within a race as they did with 125/400,s. But you all know what the answer is going to be (to Slow and no extra time for practice) as for Newcomers thats what the MGP is for. Just a few who came through from the MGP Nick J winner at both. Robert Dunlop a winner also and of course Foggy and Hizzy do i need to say more. They could still have a newcomers award at the meeting as they do at the Southern 100 meetings. A few years ago i heard a conversation between a number of top riders who believed newcomers should start at the MGP. If the TT classes stay as they are we will see more people coming to the MGP because its becoming a better event with so much more to hear and see. Well thats my 10p,s worth all the best Irish Ago.....

I'm sorry, I don't buy the "no time for practice" line. If there's time for the electric bikes, then there's time to fit another class in. Also, given that the riders only have 2 or 3 bikes to set up now, not 5, then there must be time. I was under the impression that all these silly practice laps on race days were taking the place of early morning practice.

Hi Jo, Ive got to agree with the above post... but you know what they are like enough said.....Ago

I'm with Irish Ago - to a point! You'll find 650 twins at every club series in the country and the Moto450/GP45 thing is beginning to take off al over the world. The potential for manufacturer involvement in a 450 class is huge - nearly all manfucaturers do a 450 - and they look & sound like proper race bikes. They also might be cost effective enough that dealer teams might be tempted back!

My ideal would be something similar to the Manx in that I'd have a Lightweight TT in 3 classes: 250GP, 650 Twin, Moto450/GP45. Wins awarded for best in each class.

Use the post-race practice sessions and run it as a 3 lapper on the morning of the Senior.

I know Paul Philips doesn't feel this way but I see no reason why we have to have fundamentally the same grid of riders for EVERY solo race - it starts getting a bit like Groundhog Day by mid week! There are riders that go well on smaller machines who perhaps aren't so good on bigger stuff. There will also be riders who might fancy the TT on a smaller machine and have no interest in racing something bigger. Besides introducing variety in machine classes I don't think some variety in riders would hurt either...

I'm quite sure with the above class structure you'd get a decent sized grid. There are top flight TT riders already involved in those classes and I'm also quite sure it would prove popular with true TT fans and provide an incentive for people to stick around a bit longer instead of clearing off by the Tuesady of race week.

Good call Sticky, I like your suggestions, I hope someone in power is reading this.

People are not sure which race they are watching these days, pity the riders don't have different numbers per race.

Any comment Paul and Nick ??

By the way, when did "seeding" start ? I remember Surtees (no 65), Dukey (no 50) and MacIntyre (no79) winning with numbers down in the 50 -70 range !! Would it be too dangerous to start the top riders within the whole grid ?

Ian, you say "people are not sure which race they are watching these days". How true!!! Even the titles of the races all sound the same (as do the bikes), Supersport, Superstock, Superbike. The only thing that is different is the background colour of the number. And speaking of such things, why don't the Senior bikes all have yellow front backgrounds any more? You could keep side numbers as per type of bike, i.e., white or red if you need classification.

(27-06-2010, 09:17 PM)Jo Rowe Wrote: Ian, you say "people are not sure which race they are watching these days". How true!!! Even the titles of the races all sound the same (as do the bikes), Supersport, Superstock, Superbike. The only thing that is different is the background colour of the number. And speaking of such things, why don't the Senior bikes all have yellow front backgrounds any more? You could keep side numbers as per type of bike, i.e., white or red if you need classification.

Interesting to see that in the 2009 and 2010 TT Race Guide (programme with the race numbers in) The Supersport Race 1, and the Supersport Race 2 are the names of the 600cc races. In the 2008 TT Race Guide the 600cc races are known as the Supersport Junior TT 1, and Supersport Junior TT 2. I think it is a great pity that the name Junior TT seems to have disappeared in 2009, and 2010.

An exciting event but at the same time, it's become boring. Bit like same horse, different jockey. Certainly has lost it's appeal for me and some of my Australian mates. Long, expensive trip for us to come and watch, what we from a spectators point of view, consider are almost identical races. As I've said before, thank goodness for the sidecars.

Couldn't agree more, Jan, regarding the sidecars. Unfortunately, they're next on the hit list. Won't that be great, the world's greatest races without any racing machinery at all.

I guess it is time for me to put my 2 cents worth in...

There is a "mature" chap here in the states (Chris Economacki)... he was around when the cars were built by the racers at home, and they raced on dirt, and you saw those type of races all over the county... and the fans came out in big numbers... Then one company made "the best chassis" and then one engine turned out to be the "best" engine.. and no longer did the fans come out to see "parade laps"... This same chap spoke of NASCAR racing and it too had gone the way of a single chassis and most of the engines are so similar people swear you can interchange parts... and the interest was starting to fade... But it seems the people at the top may of figured it out.. back to the basics... have the cars look more differently... etc...

I think you can see the same parallel in bike racing... perhaps it is time to go back to the "roots"... single cylinder bikes.... smaller classes...(yes I miss the 2 strokes too..). so the younger folk can identify the race bikes with what they can buy and ride... (beginner - intermediate types)... get those young folks interested in more than cleaning the plastic each week... and the future will be bright... besides the racers should be more of the stars, than the bikes they ride..!!! (IMNSHO).

I also think that the technology should be used to make the bikes safer then more reliable and not let the bikes to the riding...!!

Back to the garage now.... I have a LOT of work to do... see you all in 7 weeks..!!

Cheers..!!!

Ron - The Crazy Yank... Long live the TT and MGP..!!!

One Hundred years of the mountain circuit in 2011, who thinks that a "Classic" TT would be a good idea ?.

Good idea, Pat. Can we use the same circuit they did in 1911 as well? maybe that would offer us the variety we all seem to be after!!!

I thought it was the same circuit, 37.73 mile in length !

No, the original mountain circuit was slightly different from now. I'm not sure where from exactly, I'm trying to remember but my brain is useless, sorry. I think the bikes turned off at Cronk ny Mona? Certainly there was no Governor's Dip. The course as we know it now (aside from straightening Quarry Bends, Brandish, etc.) was put in place in 1914.

I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable/intelligent than me will be along to correct me and add proper info! Sorry, I spend so much time with 3 year olds that much of this information has been relegated to make room for more nursery rhymes!