Does anyone know if there is a working example of Joe Ehrlichs EMC in thr UK ? If not where would I find a "museum" example please ??

It is 50 years since I met Dr Joe and he took time out to show me over his machine while we were at the TT.

Is there a book on Dr Joe ??

Thank you !

(31-07-2010, 11:12 AM)ian huntly Wrote: Does anyone know if there is a working example of Joe Ehrlichs EMC in thr UK ? If not where would I find a "museum" example please ??

It is 50 years since I met Dr Joe and he took time out to show me over his machine while we were at the TT.

Is there a book on Dr Joe ??

Thank you !

It depends which EMC you refer to Ian? i'm sure there are a few of the later ones based around the Rotax inline twin, in fact I think Donnie McLeod recently paraded his 7 Up EMC from the 80's at a classic meeting somewhere in the UK.

Not sure about the earlier single cylinder models from the Hailwood era, I would hope one or two have survived somewhere.

I attended Dr Joe's very popular technical lecture's at the York road racing show a few times in the 1980's, he was a real genius with a priceless wealth of technical knowledge and some interesting theories, when the lecture's ended we used to keep the poor old lad trapped for about another hour as we all fired endless questions at him, and to his credit he always took the time to answer every one of us in turn.

Thank you very much for your info but it is the Hailwood era models I was trying to trace.

Mike managed to get third place in the Championship on one and it was at the TT where Dr Joe used my camera to take a pic of me "cuddling" the bike in the paddock.

He was so informative and I enjoyed the time we chatted.

I know there was one of the Hailwood/Minter/Avery bikes here just a few years ago for the Classic Lap, I can recall it in the paddock, just can't find the flippin' picture yet!

(01-08-2010, 05:49 PM)Bill Snelling Wrote: I know there was one of the Hailwood/Minter/Avery bikes here just a few years ago for the Classic Lap, I can recall it in the paddock, just can't find the flippin' picture yet!

That would be the 125 MZ which the "genius" converted to watercooling then, Bill ?

As an Aussie friend of mine would say:

Ha!!

Ian,cant help you with SMB emc, but i did pits for a friend in the 80's I remember the commentary was a t the bungalow . G Cannell I think ? .

The EMC came into refuel Brian Reid ? those days they were allowed their own dump fillers ! Geoff had reported that the emc was misfiring , we were the next pit to the EMC team when Brian pulled in they pulled the fairing, missed the fuel tank , and covered me with avgas ! it was a blazing hot day and Jochen who pitted for Helmut Dahne and Hans Otto helped me out that day . Thanks for bringing up EMC great memories for me .

And thank you for reminding me of Dump Fillers !

1/ I remember Dougie Randall "manufacturing" one from two large oil drums welded together..We managed to get a length of fuel resisting pipe.

I went to Slough to see a friend to get the special aviation style connectors from pipe to tank and the result worked fine for us.

2/ Dennis Ireland tried a similar one but failed to use/secure the same type of delivery pipe as we did. As a consequence, when he came into refuel it appeared that the fuel had denatured the pipe and the fuel spurted out all over Dennis's, Er, Groin area !! He continued on in the race but had a sore private area after the race.

Those Dump Systems were more dangerous than useful.

3/ Finally in another race I had the job to refuel Doug from the normal high level reservoir. Our little team checked everything, and I allowed a little drop of fuel out of the nozzle to prove we had flow.

Doug came in to refuel and I pushed the nozzle end of the pipe into the opened tank top. We expected to refuel in seconds but nothing came down the pipe.

Doug sat calmly as his pit team scrabbled trying to find the problem....

It appeared that one of the pit marshalls had seen the tap open before our rider arrived and for safety he had put it into the closed position !!

We did register a complaint but the marshall had done the right thing !!

Doug still finished in a good spot.

This is not an answer to your quest but may provide a bit more background. Charlie Williams may have some ideas about this. I found the following mention on http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C141116/

"EMC 250 - Auction 13/3 For Sale by Auction (1984)

ex-Graeme McGregor IOM TT winner Estimate:£15000 - 17000 Registration No:N/A Chassis No: EMC015 Engine No:179403 CC:250 Colour: Blue Trim Colour: MOT:N/A Dr Josef Ehrlich arrived in the UK from Austria during 1937 and by 1947 was producing his 350cc split single two stroke at a factory in Park Royal, London. Unfortunately the model was not a commercial success forcing the factory to close in 1952. During the period EMC had been active in road racing with a split single which gained some success. Following the closure of the EMC factory "Dr Joe" moved to Austin, developing a two stroke engine for the Mini, before joining De Havilland to run their small engine division, overseeing the development of a range of two stroke engines including a 125 disc valve racing single, followed by a twin of the same capacity that was raced during the early sixties with some success by Rex Avery, Mike Hailwood and Derek Minter among others. Unfortunately the De Havilland group was taken over by Rolls Royce during 1965 and the small engine division was closed. Dr Ehrlich once again set up his own business developing two stroke engines for a variety of applications before returning to motorcycle racing in the early eighties, initially in conjunction with Waddon before building Rotax powered machines bearing the EMC badge in 1984 with a factory team being owned and run by George Beale. The machine offered, frame number EMC015 was ridden to victory in the 1984 Junior TT by the Australian rider Graeme McGregor. The team employed a refueling rig designed by George Beale that was capable of putting six and half gallons into the fuel tank in seven seconds. McGregor kept the EMC in front of the challenge mounted by Joey Dunlop and following his retirement, Charlie Williams setting a new lap record of 111.06 mph in the process. In a addition to their win on the Island the McGregor/015 partnership achieved a second place to Wayne Rainey at Daytona and a number of other good placings throughout the year. This significant motorcycle is offered in good condition in all respects and retains

This advert has now been removed through sale or otherwise, please see the list below for similar live adverts "

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And here:

EMC

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This should be the man with the answers:
George Beale, H&H Classic Auctions Ltd, Whitegate Farm,. Hatton, Warrington, Cheshire WA4 4BZ

(04-08-2010, 07:47 PM)ian huntly Wrote: And thank you for reminding me of Dump Fillers !

1/ I remember Dougie Randall "manufacturing" one from two large oil drums welded together..We managed to get a length of fuel resisting pipe.

I went to Slough to see a friend to get the special aviation style connectors from pipe to tank and the result worked fine for us.

2/ Dennis Ireland tried a similar one but failed to use/secure the same type of delivery pipe as we did. As a consequence, when he came into refuel it appeared that the fuel had denatured the pipe and the fuel spurted out all over Dennis's, Er, Groin area !! He continued on in the race but had a sore private area after the race.

Those Dump Systems were more dangerous than useful.

3/ Finally in another race I had the job to refuel Doug from the normal high level reservoir. Our little team checked everything, and I allowed a little drop of fuel out of the nozzle to prove we had flow.

Doug came in to refuel and I pushed the nozzle end of the pipe into the opened tank top. We expected to refuel in seconds but nothing came down the pipe.

Doug sat calmly as his pit team scrabbled trying to find the problem....

It appeared that one of the pit marshalls had seen the tap open before our rider arrived and for safety he had put it into the closed position !!

We did register a complaint but the marshall had done the right thing !!

Doug still finished in a good spot.

Ian, do you remember the tubular frame that Honda,/ Barry Symonds had built for the 1983? TT F1 race. It was built over the first pit and had a "quick filler" suspended in it, on that was on a retractable spring device that retracted the "quick filler" after use. If I remember correctly they filled Joey's and Roger ( marshalls) f1 machines with 25 litres of fuel, and changed the rear wheels in a matter of seconds. can anybody remember if the fuel was pressure fed or just gravity ?. I can remember Colin Arms and " technical" colleagues taking a interest as it was constructed, ( possibly consulting the rule book) as to it's legality !. I dont think they were allowed to use it for the Senior race.1.

I remember that system, it was only a few pits up from where I was.

I cannot remember seeing any pressure applied, that amount of fuel flowing through the huge bore pipes into the machine tank was like dropping a balloon full of water off a tall building.

We were all totally amazed at the speed at which their pit stops were carried out and various mixed feelings (jealousy, anger, protestation and the like) travelled down pit lane as fast as the fuel had been dumped into the tanks.

The trouble was that there was not a level playing field for these dumpers. I suppose we "cheated" since I had a pal in the avaiation industry who loaned me the fast filling valves. others struggled with what they had, hoping it would do the job. Then Barry comes along with what looked like a launching tower for a space shuttle !!

The organisers had to level things down !!

I am just pleased to have been a part of that 80s era where the regs were tested to the limit and beyond. This caused a revision and a tightening up of what was allowed in practices and racing.

Can you remember the days BEFORE compulsory oil spill collectors, mounted under race bikes.

We used a petrol-washed "dry" plastic oil bottle (I think Silkolene one liter comes to mind), but even after strapping it under the frame with cable ties and lock wire it still fell off, first lap, somewhere between Braddan and Union Mills !! We found it days later on the kerb without a drop of oil in it........(I knew it was ours, we'd stuck our decal on it !)

Keep this string going, I'm enjoying the memories.

i remember working in the old pit lane which was around half the width of the current one, with no stop box or speed restrictions.

In those days it was quite permissible to enter the pits at any speed, which if a riders pit was down the bottom end was pretty fast.

Being on your knees working frantically to wire something up, while bike's were passing a couple of feet away at high speed as they entered or left the pits was a scary experience.

(05-08-2010, 05:16 PM)stealth Wrote: i remember working in the old pit lane which was around half the width of the current one, with no stop box or speed restrictions.

In those days it was quite permissible to enter the pits at any speed, which if a riders pit was down the bottom end was pretty fast.

Being on your knees working frantically to wire something up, while bike's were passing a couple of feet away at high speed as they entered or left the pits was a scary experience.

ye Stealth,after rider had been in ,used to go to back of g stand for a fag.remember ,Grant coming through on back wheel.that year boat strike,crank whent on tz,had to wait 2 days for new one .Finished 27th and rider asked me to go to prize giving for his rep.Rider was a chester lad called Dave aukland, anyone in touch with him ,send my regards,great memories.

(05-08-2010, 10:11 PM)pitlane07 Wrote:

(05-08-2010, 05:16 PM)stealth Wrote: i remember working in the old pit lane which was around half the width of the current one, with no stop box or speed restrictions.

In those days it was quite permissible to enter the pits at any speed, which if a riders pit was down the bottom end was pretty fast.

Being on your knees working frantically to wire something up, while bike's were passing a couple of feet away at high speed as they entered or left the pits was a scary experience.

ye Stealth,after rider had been in ,used to go to back of g stand for a fag.remember ,Grant coming through on back wheel.that year boat strike,crank whent on tz,had to wait 2 days for new one .Finished 27th and rider asked me to go to prize giving for his rep.Rider was a chester lad called Dave aukland, anyone in touch with him ,send my regards,great memories.

Yep them was the days mate the lap speeds are so fast now that you're lucky to get out for a smoke between laps, as you say we used to be able to see our man through then go for a leisurely coffee and a smoke in the Hailwood centre before stolling back to the pit for the next lap, now you're lucky if you get time for a quick pee, and even then its a gamble as to whether you'll be let back across pitlane in time!!

I don't remember the old grandstand, but I definitely remember the current pitlane, pre stop box and speed limits - and scrutineers running across pitlane (although in all honesty, I still think that is safer, as you can see what's coming and what bikes need a quick looking at).

(06-08-2010, 12:08 AM)Jo Rowe Wrote: I don't remember the old grandstand, but I definitely remember the current pitlane, pre stop box and speed limits - and scrutineers running across pitlane (although in all honesty, I still think that is safer, as you can see what's coming and what bikes need a quick looking at).

I really do think that a book could be written about the TT pits. Some of the things that I can remember happening there amused me and horrified me. I can remember Mal Carter being asked to leave the pit area on numerous occasions ( some during the same race) for smoking, at one time he was really shirty with the officials. I can remember the hose on one of the old quick fillers bursting and petrol running down the road. After that we all had to insulate and keep boxed all spare battery's that we had in the pit. Shortly before one race all pit crew who were wearing red overalls were not allowed in, the official who decided on that was Bill Boddice, apparently you were not allowed at one time to wear red in the pit's, and he thought that was still the rule. And, who remembers the Geoff Cannell "live" interviews during pit stops ?, some of them were very amusing, like the guy who told Geoff that he did not take the microphone away from him he would throw it in the grandstand !. Keep the storeys coming !.[/code]