Should some of the classes at the MGP be dropped, practice time is short enough as it is without having too many different classes. Some riders never qualified at this years MGP due to lack of practice time, weather, technical problems etc. Some may say that the MGP is losing its way or direction. Will it end up as just a classic meeting, I think it will as in the rest of europe now classic racing is big bussiness and attracts a lot of paying spectators. Something that the Isle of Man Government see as a must, more £s coming into the pot.

I think the balance of the mgp as is, is just about spot on. The new and old run well together and seem to keep the real enthusiast happy. Old bikes,new bikes,old folk,young ones, rubbing along well together. But i also think that a further hour NEEDS to be added to practice to help with track knowledge and safety. Don,t know how they,ll manage this with marshall,s,road closures and ;getting round the people against any more disruption; but i feel this should be looked at from the competitors point of view,. It,s the main gripe i,ve got against the event. As an old fogey,i now prefer it to the TT,something i thought i,d never say,but that,s what happens when you get the bus pass and heating allowance.

(14-09-2011, 07:47 PM)ian charlton Wrote: I think the balance of the mgp as is, is just about spot on. The new and old run well together and seem to keep the real enthusiast happy. Old bikes,new bikes,old folk,young ones, rubbing along well together.

Agreed Ian entry classes are about right, thought the formula classic would be better supported though. If the powers that be could just leave the format alone for a few years people would know what to enter (takes a while with the older stuff) without treading water (not a rain reference) waiting to see if the 'rules' are changing.

And George...........you seem to pass your time thinking up a statement to get peoples backs up. If that floats your boat (still not a rain reference) please find another puddle (there you have the rain reference) your continued diatribe is spoiling what is a decent forum.

Sorry George I think you've got this one wrong...

I too feel that the mixture of classic, post-classic and modern classes is spot on. At the moment the Manx GP is increasing it's visitor numbers and it's my belief that those visitors are staying for longer than the 2-3 days that most TT visitors stop for. The reason for this in my opinion is the variety. Every race day has a different character at the Manx whereas at the TT every race day is Groundhog Day.

Take away the variety and you risk taking away the incentive for people to stay longer. The longer people stay, the more they'll spend in the local economy and the more widely they'll spend it. That will in turn filter back into the Tynwald exchequer.

Going OT for a second, I'm also puzzled as to why the Formula Classic hasn't taken off. I'd have thought that there'd be tons of Tridents, Rocket-3s & Commandos lurking out there. Perhaps someone from the MMCC should liaise with the CRMC and BHR and see what will work - then stick to it!

TOMR & Sticky, firstly I love the MGP and the variety of races it puts on but I still think that something needs to be done to create more practice time. This year we had 60 newcomers and some struggled to qualify for one reason or the other, mainly lack of practice time..

Classic meetings in Europe are now big events and attract large paying crowds and is enjoyed by all. We had a few occasions at this years MGP where classic bikes created faults and dumped oil all over the track which in tern takes time to clean up, they don't have catch trays in the fairings like the modern bikes have to have. So maybe the practices for the classic should be put back to the last session of practice in future. I may be wrong but I will quote what a Traveling marshals stated as a reason that a practice session was ended was due to the amount of classic bikes that had broke down and were still on the track creating a safety issue.

(15-09-2011, 05:08 PM)George Wrote: TOMR & Sticky, firstly I love the MGP and the variety of races it puts on but I still think that something needs to be done to create more practice time. This year we had 60 newcomers and some struggled to qualify for one reason or the other, mainly lack of practice time..

Classic meetings in Europe are now big events and attract large paying crowds and is enjoyed by all. We had a few occasions at this years MGP where classic bikes created faults and dumped oil all over the track which in tern takes time to clean up, they don't have catch trays in the fairings like the modern bikes have to have. So maybe the practices for the classic should be put back to the last session of practice in future. I may be wrong but I will quote what a Traveling marshals stated as a reason that a practice session was ended was due to the amount of classic bikes that had broke down and were still on the track creating a safety issue.

George you are wrong classic bikes do have catch trays.

(15-09-2011, 05:42 PM)cregnybaa Wrote:

(15-09-2011, 05:08 PM)George Wrote: TOMR & Sticky, firstly I love the MGP and the variety of races it puts on but I still think that something needs to be done to create more practice time. This year we had 60 newcomers and some struggled to qualify for one reason or the other, mainly lack of practice time..

Classic meetings in Europe are now big events and attract large paying crowds and is enjoyed by all. We had a few occasions at this years MGP where classic bikes created faults and dumped oil all over the track which in tern takes time to clean up, they don't have catch trays in the fairings like the modern bikes have to have. So maybe the practices for the classic should be put back to the last session of practice in future. I may be wrong but I will quote what a Traveling marshals stated as a reason that a practice session was ended was due to the amount of classic bikes that had broke down and were still on the track creating a safety issue.

George you are wrong classic bikes do have catch trays.

Am I, I dont think so >>>>>>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/suzukiman/5...-solomotos

(15-09-2011, 05:53 PM)George Wrote:

(15-09-2011, 05:42 PM)cregnybaa Wrote:

(15-09-2011, 05:08 PM)George Wrote: TOMR & Sticky, firstly I love the MGP and the variety of races it puts on but I still think that something needs to be done to create more practice time. This year we had 60 newcomers and some struggled to qualify for one reason or the other, mainly lack of practice time..

Classic meetings in Europe are now big events and attract large paying crowds and is enjoyed by all. We had a few occasions at this years MGP where classic bikes created faults and dumped oil all over the track which in tern takes time to clean up, they don't have catch trays in the fairings like the modern bikes have to have. So maybe the practices for the classic should be put back to the last session of practice in future. I may be wrong but I will quote what a Traveling marshals stated as a reason that a practice session was ended was due to the amount of classic bikes that had broke down and were still on the track creating a safety issue.

George you are wrong classic bikes do have catch trays.

Am I, I dont think so >>>>>>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/suzukiman/5...-solomotos

George i am sure someone will be along soon to put you right as i cant be bothered i dont normally suffer fools.

Sorry George, I don't want to gang up on you as such, but I'm absolutely certain that a drip tray is a necessity for classic bikes, far more so than modern ones for obvious reasons.

The picture you've linked to is of Sammy Miller on a 500 Gilera, presumably restored by him to period accuracy. It is also, quite obviously, taken in a parade.

Regardless of that, modern bikes have been dropping plenty of oil lately. Ryan at the NW200 for example. Not going to name any names about who told me but I was told this was due to the oil level sighting glasses blowing out of the crankcases - which is why in many cases competitors were continuing for some time, unaware of a problem.

ALL four stokes have an oil catchment tray, George. It is written clearly in the Manx regs.

I read your initial post last night and wanted to put what An OLd Man Returns has put, but I couldn't think how to write it as politely as he has (thanks Ken!) Is there any way you coud post something positive???

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093701258

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093900328

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093271001

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093771876

(15-09-2011, 07:47 PM)sticky Wrote: Sorry George, I don't want to gang up on you as such, but I'm absolutely certain that a drip tray is a necessity for classic bikes, far more so than modern ones for obvious reasons.

The picture you've linked to is of Sammy Miller on a 500 Gilera, presumably restored by him to period accuracy. It is also, quite obviously, taken in a parade.

Regardless of that, modern bikes have been dropping plenty of oil lately. Ryan at the NW200 for example. Not going to name any names about who told me but I was told this was due to the oil level sighting glasses blowing out of the crankcases - which is why in many cases competitors were continuing for some time, unaware of a problem.

I'm sure the Sammy Miller Gilera is a replica built by the Kay Bros (who also built a few others). Paul

Yet again a post lacking the correct facts from George.........shocked NO...


If your going to post something on here George please be aware that many of us compete at the MGP, scrutineer at the MGP and.........................
ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, UNLIKE YOU IT SEEMS

MGP regs state that all motorcycles classic and modern competing at this years MGP MUST have oil catchment trays.

It may help you George to know, my last engine blow was a YZF. That covered me, the back tyre and the track in lots and lots of oil (bike has oil tray but the speed just helped spew it backwards) the blow up before that a 350K4 approaching the bungalow when all but a cup of oil was retained in the oil tray)

Just in case you spout 'oh but the bike pictures I list show no oil trays' then neither did the travelling marshals or the course cars....

pipe smoke shove stick you in that...........

(15-09-2011, 10:06 PM)George Wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093701258

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093900328

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093271001

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093771876

George can you not see what Jo Rowe has written she should know she is a scrutineer at the manx.

(15-09-2011, 10:29 PM)cregnybaa Wrote:

(15-09-2011, 10:06 PM)George Wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093701258

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093900328

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093271001

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093771876

George can you not see what Jo Rowe has written she should know she is a scrutineer at the manx.

So the above classics have catch trays ????, and yes I am aware of what the regs say , but still not all classics have catch trays.
But like most things on forums , topics wonder of in all directions. I asked if the MGP had to many classes for the amount of practice time available. Have I slagged the event off, I dont think so, like you Im allowed to voice my veiws on an open forum. May I also point out that if I was against road racing , I would not be spending the amount of $ or traveling the amount of miles that I do on road racing.

---

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t0tbzQTo78

George has started a thread to give us all a bit of banter and chew on,nothing wrong with that in my view and it sure beats reading mcn. AND please note, his photos back up his words. Now how do you get out of that one? It,s all good crack tho,stay cool,it,ll soon be christmas.

(15-09-2011, 10:06 PM)George Wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093701258

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093900328

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093271001

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64094501@N00/6093771876

So the above classics have catch trays ????, and yes I am aware of what the regs say , but still not all classics have catch trays.
But like most things on forums , topics wonder of in all directions. I asked if the MGP had to many classes for the amount of practice time available.

George who said you have 'slagged the event off' only you it seems!!

Not all oil trays fitted to race bikes (not parade bikes) are part of the lower fairing, a fair amount have trays fabricated and fitted under the lower frame rails and are not always easily viewed on photographs. Each bike is scrutineered by a different scrutineer each time it goes on circuit at the MGP (I am sure this is the same at the TT) to ensure all bikes required to be fitted with an oil tray have one in place.

No one has a problem with anyone expressing a view or opinion on the forum and that’s true.....but when the view or formed opinion is factually incorrect its insulting to the reader and the people/riders/scrutineers it alludes to.

And to bleat that you started the thread about practice time available and miss out that it was the comment you also included about classic bikes dropping oil, that caused this backlash, ranks just below the 3 year old stood next to a wall with pen in hand admiring the scribble whilst responding to the question who did that? with a shake of the head and uttering not me!

In closing extra practice time would be welcome obviously. I experienced early morning practices and enjoyed them. However times change, morning practice is no more and we have the sessions we have.
If a practice has been cancelled because of oil dropped from a bike I cannot recall it.
Now then, a practice cancelled because of rain, fog lack of light or diesel

George

Once again, I have to justify myself to you. Not only that, you are implying that I am not doing my job properly by allowing four stroke machines out on to the course without oil containment, contrary to the regulations and that has annoyed me.

The oil containment for Classics was introduced as a strongly recommended item in 2009 after John Goodall's tragic accident in 2008. It was made compulsory in 2010 and is now accepted by all MGP Classic four stroke competitors. Obviously these machines were never designed to have oil containment and some of the solutions are quite ingenious and maintain the original apperance. Such a machine is number 28 ridden by Gordon Yule. If Gordon is at next year's MGP I shall be very happy to show you how Gordon has achieved it.

The aluminium tray on Alan Brew's machine can be clearly seen by his right boot. It can also be seen here http://www.sport-pics.co.uk/2011_Season/...cjunlwt/1c

Nigel Moore's solution on machine number 6 is far more basic but it can be seen at http://www.sport-pics.co.uk/2011_Season/...cjunlwt/1c

As you say you know the regulation then you will be aware that the requirement is to hold at least half of the total oil and coolant capacity of the engine in the event of an engine failure. This brings us to Stuart Garton's beautiful machine, number 25, which is quite obviously a BSA Gold Star engine in a Rickman frame. It has a separate engine and gearbox, is air cooled and has a separate oil tank and even if a conrod broke and came through the bottom of the crankcase, the amount of oil in the engine is minimal as was proved when that happened to Gold Star Ron's machine with Kevin Murphy on board two year's ago. The fairing on Stuart's machine extends back behind the engine and has a dam fitted to the rear lip so it meets the requirements.

Just because you think that you cannot see oil containment does not mean it is not there, the Classic crowd are far more resourceful than the modern riders.

I refuse to get into a slanging match with someone who seems to do it for a living but I am not going to stand by while criticism is aimed unfairly at the scrutineering team in general and me in particular . I am pleased that there are people like an old man returns that are prepared to support us. Thank you, Ken.

Thanks also to Rusty for using his photographs as evidence.

Jeff Kirby

I also stand corrected on that one , i,ll keep my mouth zipped in future. May i also add that the help given to us at the Manx by the scrutineers was much appreciated and stands us well for the future. Off to Oulton now,hope the weather,s better than what we,ve had this week.

Thank you Jeff, that saved me some time. And thank you Ken, again.