Yes thats true and why it should be qualifying starting order no matter who you are ,

how is the seeding order worked out ???

from the information they have from last year ? or from the information given from a newcomers record of club races , now all that info is totally out of date on the run up to the event a rider and or team will have bought new bikes or upgraded what they have to try and have a better chance of doing well or better than before while other riders that had similar times and are just happy to be there by the skin of their credit card with the same gear as last time just a bit more gaffer tape and a few more cable ties , so having the effect of making it that they should be starting way apart not with each other , now the most up to date information to use to work out start order is what the rider/ bike combination is putting up in the practices on the run up to the race , just as it is in any other event anywhere in the world , and why do they do that everywhere ?? because it is the fairest and SAFEST way to do it simple as that , if a rider is having a tough time well tough thats life thats racing , a cruel world , ask the relatives of those that paid the ultimate price


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Eddy, we know you wont change your mind and thats totally up to you, i must admit though i have not seen a rider agree with your theory yet on here or our old home? When splashdown (nick) believes the old seeding sysytem is the way to go i totally trust his judgement, taking presure off in practice week so everyone can gradualy build upto speed without trying to set a time has got to be miles safer.
Your race idea (the recent system) probably makes race week a little safer but it makes practice week a damn site more riskier with people trying to drag a time out of something thats not quite there yet and far out weighs the good of the qualifying system for start position

have a good christmas all

Thank you tatuus! I've kept out of this discussion since we've "transferred", but reading your comments has fired me up.
What doesn't seem to be acknowledged, is that the leaders will be overtaking the slower riders anyway, so what difference does it make? The leading riders are perfectly capable of performing an overtaking manoeuvre, they do it all the time on other circuits.
I cannot for the life of me understand why it is worth risking both the safety of riders in practice, and the lack of understanding of the race for the public.
I certainly won't be coming to the Island for the TT whilst racing is underway in the present format.
Obviously the bigger deal is the pressure applied to riders in practice. It is totally unacceptable to have ANY rider attempting to put in a decent lap time before either the bike or the rider are ready to do so. Practice is what it is, and so it should remain that way.
I recall in 1996, I had had a huge crash at the NW200 at Mather's Cross, and arrived on the Island in quite a sorry state. I duly qualified in 23rd place. In the first race(F1), I finished 2nd to Phillip McCallen ahead of Michael Rutter, Ian Duffus, and Joey.
Can you imagine starting that race in 23rd place? But because I was under no pressure in practice, I was able to build up my confidence, and started the race in a reasonable state of mind. That's just one fairly reasonable example.
The sooner the organisers change the present format, the better.

You are right I will not change my mind , just because two riders on here say that had a hard time because of problems they were having or because one would not have been able to achieve a second place had he started under the new system, sorry Nick you know I have respect for you and value your friendship,
But your statement says that by being allowed to start higher up the numbers because of who you were and your past achievements you were given an advantage that you should not have had, sorry and all that but it's a hard game, your point about practice being made worse does not hold water either in my book , for me every rider that ever set off down that hallowed strip of tarmac sets off wanting to do his best and have the perfect ride and the only pressure put on a rider is put on by him self, as in the race it is a time trial against the clock, the throttle works two ways and if you want to ride the ultimate Roads challenge you know you are risking your all every time you set off and that is what makes the TT. What it is, and sorry once again Nick but you more than any of us on here know that is true for you have taken part and you have lost family to the event and that was a practice session,
I think that the decisions need to be made by people calmly one step back that are not influenced by emotion, and misplaced romanticism, the romantic idea that nothing must ever change

Me change no sorry but would you have me any other way??

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But Eddy, apart from the DED and yourself, we have not heard from anyone, spectators or riders who think the new system is a good idea.??

ut I think if you look back through the records Paul Philips said that they had conducted a survey of riders and said that the majority though it was better ,
Just because a handfull on here do not agree can not be considered as reprosentative of the majority by a long way

Paul Phillips also said that they have a targeted market to whom they gather feedback. We have not heard from anyone that knows anyone who has been part of this targeted market.
Like wise, we also have not heard from any rider who has said it is a good idea, never mind the majority of riders.
Even JM130 himself said it is not a good idea.
Yes, it is true that a lot of the of spectators may have not complained, but I bet they are the 'newbys' who dont know any better, or have not experienced the previous system.
It is a bit like a group of people who have never been to the cinema sitting down for the first time to watch a big blockbuster, but they dont turn the lights off, or turn the sound up.
After the film, they all say how great it was.
Now you take them back in to watch it again with the lights off, and turn the sound up.
After the second showing, I would bet ALL of them would say how better it was.
This is all acedemic, as you have stated that you have made your mind up, and nothing will make you change your mind. Nothing wrong with that, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but it still makes you a lone voice in the wilderness...

I think you will find that JM 130 made his comments as a spectator after watching a race now just because he is a good rider does not make him a expert spectator

An expert spectator, what is one of those????
Happy Christmas Eddy!

(24-12-2014, 10:48 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: I think you will find that JM 130 made his comments as a spectator after watching a race now just because he is a good rider does not make him a expert spectator

Dictionary definition of "expert"

"A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject"

You're probably right Eddie, it appears there's only one on the forum

Oh I think there are a lot on here that think they are Andy

I don't qualify , I am a volunteer official a Marshal, who takes it seriously. With a open mind to the hard facts ,
That others find hard to grasp

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Eddy, in your post #44, you said you will not change your mind.
That is not the same as having an open mind ref your #51 post!

I feel like we've been here before... But for what it's worth I also disagree with the new system, for all the reasons previously outlined by the likes of Nick. But, to add slightly more weight, both my dad and brother also preferred the old system, as riders who have started a lot of races around the mountain course.

Dad often said that you don't get anywhere by winning practice. So he'd use it to sort the bike out and would often lap 7 or 8 mph slower than he would later go in the race! This strikes me as a good decision, as he started around 80 races around the island, winning over 30 replicas and finishing on the podium 12 times. He also never had an accident in the Isle of Man and that's roughly 600+ laps. 

Now he often talks to Olie about the pressure the riders are all under at the TT, particularly in practice. Like you say Eddy, the riders all know the risks every time they go out. So why intensify this by making them push on bikes that aren't yet sorted? And if they are happy with the way the bike is handling over the bumpy sections and through the fast corners, then why make them ride at 100% every lap of practice? There's no prize for winning practice (at least there  didn't used to be)!

David

I promised myself that I would not get drawn into this discusion like I did elsewhere, and yet here I am.
I am sure the it was changed with the best intentions, but it has proved to be a stupid decision that wont be changed through sheer blo*dy mindnesness.

Well what was meant by that was that I have an open mind in the gathering of information on which to make a decision then once I have made the decision on the facts presented, I will only change my mind if there is concrete evidence that warrant a change, and the overwhelming factor for me is SAFETY based, I am sorry that it may be unpopular with some but, I will never neglect the priority of safety for the benefit of trivia or tradition,


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Still would like to know what an expert spectator is and how you qualify to be one.
Clearly JM130 does not, so that certainly rules me out.

Eddy - it ISN'T safer and you know why I think that.  I know quite a few riders from my reporting and none of them like it either!

So on the subject of the sedding of riders, and the safety of the same,
Splashdown doesnt know what he is talking about, neither does Steve Lindsell ( but boy did he campain some oddball bikes, love it!) or JM130.
How does that work?

(24-12-2014, 04:57 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: ut I think if you look back through the records Paul Philips said that they had conducted a survey of riders and said that the majority though it was better ,
Just because a handfull on here do not agree can not be considered as reprosentative of the majority by a long way

Through past personal experience I will reserve my thoughts on what Paul Phillips says and after speaking to riders what they think of him.

(25-12-2014, 10:50 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: Oh I think there are a lot on here that think they are Andy

I don't qualify , I am a volunteer official a Marshal,  who takes it seriously. With a open mind to the hard facts ,
That others find hard to grasp

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Eddie, you mention "Facts" I have obviously missed them as I've yet to see any FACTS presented. Please could you point me to the relevant postings.