(15-03-2015, 02:05 AM)Ricky Wrote: Auld eddy whingin bout trainin for marshalls again!

There used to be riders, racin in the TT that didnt know whether to turn left or right at quarterbridge for christs sake!

(Edited)


Malcolm

I just dont know how to respond to this , as most that know me know I am up for a bit of leg pull , but when it is a personal dig at me for my opinions on what is a very serious subject I find it some what out of order , marshaling is a very serious and DANGEROUS JOB that no one entering should do lightly and with the ever growing use of materials needing special treatment when being dealt with in emergencies  necessitates more and more detailed training to keep the said marshals that without there is no racing safe 
 Sorry but I feel that this is just not on, I am very tempted to throw in  the towel and call it a day 

Ignore it Eddy.
Opinions are like A holes.
Everyone has one, but more cr*p come out of some than others

Ok, 

on the thread about the DED and the proposed TT World Series, or whatever it eventually gets called, I had reason to intervene over the content of some of the posts that were made, and here is what I said"- 

"I have no problem with balanced, structured and sensible comments on this. However, I  have already had to delete comments that some of you have made, as they have been very near the knuckle and highly contentious possibly even libelous, and I will have no hesitation in doing that again, if necessary.

Therefore, please be sensible with your comments, otherwise they WILL be deleted"

Now here we are in this thread with posts that are making comments of a personal nature that are unacceptable.

I edited one post, however obviously not enough. Perhaps I should have deleted this immediately.

I have to add here, that over the past month or so, I have noticed an ever increasing need to intervene in one way or another on posts that have been made from people who have recently joined the Forums, and who have never bothered to read the T&C's for the Forum, nor any of the various items of advice that I have posted around the site for everyone to read.

I have had enough, and this will not be permitted to continue.

In future any posts that are made that are contrary to the T&C's will be immediately deleted and there will be no entering into any communication as to why I have deleted them (read the T&C's).

Anyone who does so again will receive an official warning and any subsequent post of a similar nature will be immediately deleted.

Continuation of this behaviour will get you banned, not for a day, a week, or a month, but for good.

I don't know how many times I have to say this:









Malcolm

Eddie
I allways look forward to your posts as they are allways
Interesting and informative please don't be put off by
Others.
As for your marshalling without you and the rest of the
Orange army there won't be no racing.
Don't get put off by the odd idiot every village has one.

Has anyone got an opinion about the original question?

I am reluctant to resume this thread Sticks in a way , but to try  not be put off and put back into the original question some serious thought , I sat and watched one of the Formula E races and ok it was quite entertaining for four wheeled racing but I have to say I do not watch car racing so am not very well placed to be critical of it , as with the bikes I can appreciate the engineering that has gone into them and will willingly admit how well they have done , now in the Formula E race to get some race distance they run two cars as they run one down they pit and change cars, which to me shows the weakness of the concept the storage of what is powering the vehicle ,

The big thing to me with both Electric Bikes or Cars is the concept , it is put forward as being a green way of transportation for the future , and it is just not and in my opinion never will be , the generation of electricity is far from being clean and the Electricity companies if pushed admit that at the present rate of increased usage (and that is without using it for transport propulsion ) are facing a shortfall by the late 2020's
so for me Electric transportation is fantasy land  along with windmills being generating fantasyland but that just my take on things and I can always use my Age as an excuse for not being with it when faced with things that I don't get

and after that little out bust I am standing down from this thread as I did with the Mugen thread as I am sure some one will want to have a go at me to show me the error of my ways , and i just can't be bothered  

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don't worry about it eddy just keep keeping on

I agree with Eddy that the weakness of the concept is that in Formula E is that they have to change cars mid-race, and in TT Zero this shows up as being a 1-lap race by necessity. However I know there is a serious amount of research going in to energy storage and re-generation etc so I imagine somebody, somewhere is going to crack this particular shortfall.
With regards to the original question I don't think Formula E is a threat to any potential TT World Series as these are both aimed at a very different demographic and so I don't think they are a threat to each other.
As far as 2-wheel electric bike racing goes the rate of technology development will be far more rapid with Formula E (and Formula 1) because they have access to more resources, financial and physical, and the results of this development will be accessible, and applicable, to bikes and so will help EV bike racing.

Whats the qualifying lap speed for TT zero ?

I am not sure there is a minimum qualifying lap speed as such. Last year I think from memory we qualified at 115 & 113mph

113 or 115 mph average speed per lap on the TT Mountain Course is moving right along as far as I'm concerned and anyone that can lap at that speed has all my respect, no matter what they're riding!  Especially when it's not a "flying lap".

(31-03-2015, 12:28 AM)ooobaby Wrote: 113 or 115 mph average speed per lap on the TT Mountain Course is moving right along as far as I'm concerned and anyone that can lap at that speed has all my respect, no matter what they're riding!  Especially when it's not a "flying lap".

Yes, you're right, and I think JM would confirm that for the 3 years he has ridden Shinden for us he has had to ride hard to get the lap speeds (102, 109, 117) and he has not left anything out there. Each year we are improving the potential of the bike but you need pretty good riders of the Mountain Course to extract it (and fortunately we have two of the very best when it comes to that).

Mugen
1. With the bike as it was last year how far would it get into a second lap before a lack of power was experienced,  or put another way ran out of petrol ?

2. Assuming the answer to question 1 is not another lap, would the power have to be restricted much to complete a second lap ?

(31-03-2015, 11:04 AM)Kursaal Flyer Wrote: Mugen
1. With the bike as it was last year how far would it get into a second lap before a lack of power was experienced,  or put another way ran out of petrol ? The strategy is to use the power during the lap to go as fast as possible, although it is not quite as simple as that because as the battery voltage reduces the ability for the battery to supply the full power efficiently reduces. Therefore to be able to run full chat all the way round you need to have a bit more battery capacity on board than you would need just to get the lap in. So you could certainly start into a second lap but the available power available would be reduced. Below a certain level the battery cells start to destroy themselves and then eventually you would run out of fuel. As far as I know we have not simulated how far into a second lap that might be. It's a complicated answer I know, but it's not a simple subject.

2. Assuming the answer to question 1 is not another lap, would the power have to be restricted much to complete a second lap ? The answer has a lot of the same elements as question 1, but I guess you would be back into sub-100mph laps (or maybe somewhere around 2011/2012 levels). Of course you have to remember that so far only 2 teams have broken the 100mph barrier for a single lap (iirc) so this would only apply to bikes at this level of development.

Is it true that you could in theory change batteries as fast as they can fill a petrol bike with petrol Mugen ?? , I believe one of the teams said they could ,

As a side question if all personal transport was turned over to Electric propulsion at what time of night would we all have to switch everything off in the hone to allow all the vehicles to be charged up , just a thought ?
and when all the oil has gone and we are all using these wonderfull machines what are we using to power the hgv's to deliver every thing we need to feed our selves every thing we need to build these wonder full machines to power the ships we need to ship things around the world ?? Some how I just don't see Electricity being the answer
But then it's only me

.

(31-03-2015, 01:13 PM)Mugen Wrote:

(31-03-2015, 11:04 AM)Kursaal Flyer Wrote: Mugen
1. With the bike as it was last year how far would it get into a second lap before a lack of power was experienced,  or put another way ran out of petrol ? The strategy is to use the power during the lap to go as fast as possible, although it is not quite as simple as that because as the battery voltage reduces the ability for the battery to supply the full power efficiently reduces. Therefore to be able to run full chat all the way round you need to have a bit more battery capacity on board than you would need just to get the lap in. So you could certainly start into a second lap but the available power available would be reduced. Below a certain level the battery cells start to destroy themselves and then eventually you would run out of fuel. As far as I know we have not simulated how far into a second lap that might be. It's a complicated answer I know, but it's not a simple subject.

2. Assuming the answer to question 1 is not another lap, would the power have to be restricted much to complete a second lap ? The answer has a lot of the same elements as question 1, but I guess you would be back into sub-100mph laps (or maybe somewhere around 2011/2012 levels). Of course you have to remember that so far only 2 teams have broken the 100mph barrier for a single lap (iirc) so this would only apply to bikes at this level of development.

Thankyou for the response.

(31-03-2015, 02:47 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: Is it true that you could in theory change batteries as fast as they can fill a petrol bike with petrol Mugen ?? , I believe one of the teams said they could , I believe MotoCzysz were heading in that direction but I suspect they moved away from that. For us the answer is no because our battery is pretty well integrated into the bike and the change time is 8hrs. But yes you could in theory make a swappable battery pack, but ideally the technologies need to develop a bit more so that the pack could be reduced in volume for the same power potential.

As a side question if all personal transport was turned over to Electric propulsion at what time of night would we all have to switch everything off in the hone to allow all the vehicles to be charged up , just a thought ?  
and when all the oil has gone and we are all using these wonderfull machines what are we using to power the hgv's to deliver every thing we need to feed our selves every thing we need to build these wonder full machines to power the ships we need to ship things around the world  ?? Some how I just don't see Electricity being the answer nuclear/solar/wind/tidal/flywheel/hydrogen fuel cell are all technologies that already exist capable of driving an electric motor, and maybe just need the same level of supply/support infrastructure to be viable
But then it's only me I guess you would use the same electric motors that are already powering ships and trains and buses around the world, and have been since the 1880's. I am not particularly putting myself forward as a global ambassador for electric vehicles, we just happen to race an electric bike, but I know you enjoy a stimulating discussion Eddy

.

I am not having a go Mugen and yes I do like a bit of Stimulation , I am full of respect for what you do as a race team ,
its from the other side of the coin that I have a problem you say
nuclear/solar/wind/tidal/flywheel/hydrogen fuel cell are all technologies that already exist capable of driving an electric motor, and maybe just need the same level of supply/support infrastructure to be viable
now to me what we have now is the cart before the horse , we had Electric cars a hundred and ? years ago and here we are with the same problems of storage and generation they had all those years ago , we should concentrate on those problems before we worry about tweaking the motors to do 100mph laps of a 37 mile course , like when powered transport emerged we had a supply of usable power and the internal combustion engine romped away leaving all in its wake , now to me what we need is the base problem sorting and be sat on a power supply surplus BEFORE we create a demand we have no idea how to supply , for if we don't sort the supply storage problem we will be sat with a very good looking performing white elephant

and your final words say it all

maybe just need the same level of supply/support infrastructure to be viable

and the final word especially viable because for me the concept as stands is a long long way from viable even after the government has thrown their ?? what ever it was millions at it , to solve any problem you must start at the beginning not the end

but once again it's only me being me lol

I was reading over the weekend about new battery technology. It was in the context of the mobile phone industry so I don't know if it could be adapted to motor racing. These new batteries were aluminium based rather than lithium ion and could be charged (on a mobile) in around a minute rather than a couple of hours. They are also lighter, more flexible and more stable.

Again in a mobile context, they would stand 7,500 recharges as opposed to the current 1,000 that lithium ion batteries will stand before they 'die'. The down side it that it only produces half the voltage of a current battery, but the boffins believe that they can improve this in the next few years.

On a lighter note, if the internet had existed in the early 1900's, I wonder if we would have had a forum slagging off this new fangled Tourist Trophy thing? "Can't see it catching on myself" and " Nobody wants to see these petrol engines; they'll never replace steam" or "I can't see them ever reaching any decent speeds" etc etc.