warrior
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 179
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
1
|
Challenges Facing The TT
As I sit here looking out on a lovely Manx day, with perfect racing conditions, we face at least a 2 hour delay to a programme already at bursting point, due to an RTC just prior to roads closing.
I've spent the past hour reflecting over the problems facing the TT, as the event has grown, so have the problems, its a worry, and if left unchecked these problems could ultimately grow to a point where they threaten the very existence of the event as we know it, I don't have answers to the problems below, but I think they need some serious thought by the organisers and other involved parties.
1) We have an increasing number of road riders trying to get to their vantage point before roads close, this leads to the inevitable increase in accidents.
2) Serious road accidents now require a full lock down of the scene and investigations to take place before anything else can happen, which I cant quite get my head around given the modern resources now available in relation to recording equipment.
3) I don't think its just me getting older, I honestly think the standard of riding amongst 'fans' has been going downhill rapidly in the past 2 or 3 years, leading to more accidents and less tolerance by residents.
4) We have an increasing number of what I would call 'bucket list' or 'stag trip' visitors, who don't really understand the event, don't read or listen to anything, and think its ok to urinate in peoples gardens, to walk along or across closed roads, and to ignore officials when challenged, as I type this Chris Kinley is again appealing over the radio to people who have been seen on the roads in the past few minutes, despite many similar announcements over the past hour or so.
5) For riders, practice time is getting really tight, setting up a superbike needs more than a couple of laps in most cases, and most riders now have 3 - 4 bikes to dial in during the week (I do have an idea on a possible solution to this one)
To be clear, this isn't a criticism of anyone, the CoC and everyone else does a great job and I wouldn't want to be in the CoC's shoes, but I do wonder if the TT is now becoming a victim of its own success?
|
|
08-06-2015, 11:58 AM |
|
numptydad
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 90
Threads: 6
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 11:58 AM)warrior Wrote: As I sit here looking out on a lovely Manx day, with perfect racing conditions, we face at least a 2 hour delay to a programme already at bursting point, due to an RTC just prior to roads closing.
I've spent the past hour reflecting over the problems facing the TT, as the event has grown, so have the problems, its a worry, and if left unchecked these problems could ultimately grow to a point where they threaten the very existence of the event as we know it, I don't have answers to the problems below, but I think they need some serious thought by the organisers and other involved parties.
1) We have an increasing number of road riders trying to get to their vantage point before roads close, this leads to the inevitable increase in accidents.
2) Serious road accidents now require a full lock down of the scene and investigations to take place before anything else can happen, which I cant quite get my head around given the modern resources now available in relation to recording equipment.
3) I don't think its just me getting older, I honestly think the standard of riding amongst 'fans' has been going downhill rapidly in the past 2 or 3 years, leading to more accidents and less tolerance by residents.
4) We have an increasing number of what I would call 'bucket list' or 'stag trip' visitors, who don't really understand the event, don't read or listen to anything, and think its ok to urinate in peoples gardens, to walk along or across closed roads, and to ignore officials when challenged, as I type this Chris Kinley is again appealing over the radio to people who have been seen on the roads in the past few minutes, despite many similar announcements over the past hour or so.
5) For riders, practice time is getting really tight, setting up a superbike needs more than a couple of laps in most cases, and most riders now have 3 - 4 bikes to dial in during the week (I do have an idea on a possible solution to this one)
To be clear, this isn't a criticism of anyone, the CoC and everyone else does a great job and I wouldn't want to be in the CoC's shoes, but I do wonder if the TT is now becoming a victim of its own success?
it's obviously not just old curmudgeons like me that foresee difficult times ahead for the TT if behaviour does not improve; I agree with the points raised.
|
|
08-06-2015, 12:16 PM |
|
billybookcase
Junior Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 47
Threads: 13
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
Is it possible that the acceleration of bikes nowadays means that some people can get into a dangerous situation really quickly compared to years ago?
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
|
|
08-06-2015, 12:50 PM |
|
numptydad
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 90
Threads: 6
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 12:43 PM)excollier Wrote: @Warrior
On your first point, there used to be far more bikes on the island years ago, and far less of this type of incident used to occur, I think it's the "bucket list" rider's attitudes that have changed the number of unnecessary incidents.
It's been a long time since I was able to come to the Island, and I remember the 2 miles of promenade chock-a-bloc with bikes, don't think I'd like what I'd see nowadays.
As to another post about challenging litterers and pee-ers, well, frequently they are intimidating looking yobbos , and very unlikely to pay much attention to a polite approach from someone civilised. Western Society is going to Hell in a Handcart, in fact it seems that the "tuff guy "manner has become a fashion for many. You only have to go past a gathering of like-minded individuals, whether boy-racers, Hog riders, Subaru owners, you name 'em, to see the geezers standing around looking "well'ard" , arms folded to push the muscles into prominence, designer shades , pirate headscarves , I could go on and on. The awful thing is, that many of these yobs are old enough to know better.
Sorry, overdone the rant as usual
Dave
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2015, 01:22 PM by Malcolm.)
|
|
08-06-2015, 01:18 PM |
|
Doc
Junior Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 01:18 PM)numptydad Wrote: (08-06-2015, 12:43 PM)excollier Wrote: @Warrior
On your first point, there used to be far more bikes on the island years ago, and far less of this type of incident used to occur, I think it's the "bucket list" rider's attitudes that have changed the number of unnecessary incidents.
It's been a long time since I was able to come to the Island, and I remember the 2 miles of promenade chock-a-bloc with bikes, don't think I'd like what I'd see nowadays.
As to another post about challenging litterers and pee-ers, well, frequently they are intimidating looking yobbos , and very unlikely to pay much attention to a polite approach from someone civilised. Western Society is going to Hell in a Handcart, in fact it seems that the "tuff guy "manner has become a fashion for many. You only have to go past a gathering of like-minded individuals, whether boy-racers, Hog riders, Subaru owners, you name 'em, to see the geezers standing around looking "well'ard" , arms folded to push the muscles into prominence, designer shades , pirate headscarves , I could go on and on. The awful thing is, that many of these yobs are old enough to know better.
Sorry, overdone the rant as usual
Dave
All of these are excellent points. Like many of you, I have been going over to watch the racing for many years - and my dad even longer. However, I thought a letter in (the absolutely excellent) "Ride" magazine this month summed up some of the problems perfectly. A chap had written in to say how the racing was a sideshow and he and his mates went for the drinking and partying. He reckons that why most people go these days. I'm not sure that is true (2001 proved that!), but it does indicate a sorry state of affairs and attitudes - and of-course, he may be a wind up merchant! But it is one of the reasons I much prefer the Manx GP these days.
I am getting old!
|
|
08-06-2015, 01:35 PM |
|
Latino
Junior Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 14
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2009
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
I'm the same as many ohers here. My grandfather attended the first TT in 1907 and my dad his first in 1926. My parents brought me over as a baby in 1952. The 1960's and early 70's for example there were far more bikes here than there are today. You couldn't move on Douglas Prom for lines of bikes parked on both sides PLUS on the pavements on both sides.
Apart from the "bucket listers" the other issue as I see it is that it's far too easy these days for someone with a good credit rating to buy a high-performance bike without having to serve the apprenticeship that most of us served before getting something "really fast". TBH I've seen so much cringe-worthy riding by Power Rangers this year that it's not funny. All my 2-wheel conveyances are staying inside the garage until the last of the idiots have been removed from the Rock by the Steam Packet.
I'd love to see things from your perspective but unfortunately ........... I find it impossible to get my head that far up my a$$
|
|
08-06-2015, 02:18 PM |
|
AndyL
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 101
Threads: 2
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 01:18 PM)numptydad Wrote: Western Society is going to Hell in a Handcart, in fact it seems that the "tuff guy "manner has become a fashion for many. You only have to go past a gathering of like-minded individuals, whether boy-racers, Hog riders, Subaru owners, you name 'em, to see the geezers standing around looking "well'ard" , arms folded to push the muscles into prominence, designer shades , pirate headscarves , I could go on and on.
Or mods or rockers?
While I don't disagree with the general thrust of the arguments made in this thread, let's not idealise the past. For example RTCs during the TT are not a new phenomenon. I'd be interested to know what the statistics are on that - I'm not as certain as some of you that road safety is worse now. Certainly I see more young idiots doing silly things on the roads now than I did 20 years ago, but then again, 20 years ago I was a young idiot, so maybe it's my perspective that has changed rather than reality.
|
|
08-06-2015, 03:35 PM |
|
Latino
Junior Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 14
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2009
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
We all have our opinions. Mine is that road safety is worse these days because of the increase in performance of all motorised transport and the ease with which anyone can buy literally whatever they want on credit without the "apprenticeship" that most bikers used to go through in order to have at least the basic idea how to ride it.
I'd love to see things from your perspective but unfortunately ........... I find it impossible to get my head that far up my a$$
|
|
08-06-2015, 03:43 PM |
|
numptydad
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 90
Threads: 6
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 05:12 PM)excollier Wrote: Can someone remind me why the early morning practices were stopped please? It used to be all done and dusted by 7 a.m. and roads opened. I know, as a marshal in the late eighties, it was a bit tough getting up at 4 a.m. but the roads were quiet and the marshals and the very hardy were the only traffic, fewer accidents.
good question, and I look forward to the answers. I marshalled in 1985, and once having dragged myself from my pit, actually being at Handley's, or Barregarrow, 11th milestone, etc., it was superb listening to the bikes approaching from about 4 miles way - surely early practice would be over before the come-overs get up to go to their merchant banks and insurance companies?
And once practice was over, my old fashioned Landlady, Mrs Blackburn and her husband Brian treated me like a hero, with a wonderful, huge breakfast! I stayed at "Bonivard" The Broadway, wonder what's there now?
|
|
08-06-2015, 05:49 PM |
|
billybookcase
Junior Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 47
Threads: 13
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 05:12 PM)excollier Wrote: Can someone remind me why the early morning practices were stopped please? It used to be all done and dusted by 7 a.m. and roads opened. I know, as a marshal in the late eighties, it was a bit tough getting up at 4 a.m. but the roads were quiet and the marshals and the very hardy were the only traffic, fewer accidents.
I loved the early morning practices, up at 4, a couple of hours marshalling, big fry up breakfast after, then back to bed for a couple of hours.
It was like having 2 days for every day in practice week (if you know what I mean).
And no crowds of spectators to worry about.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
|
|
08-06-2015, 06:26 PM |
|
Dogsbody
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 71
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 05:12 PM)excollier Wrote: Can someone remind me why the early morning practices were stopped please? It used to be all done and dusted by 7 a.m. and roads opened. I know, as a marshal in the late eighties, it was a bit tough getting up at 4 a.m. but the roads were quiet and the marshals and the very hardy were the only traffic, fewer accidents.
Early morning practices are not viable now as there would not be enough marshals in place. The current requirements are far higher than what was considered sufficient some years ago.
With regard to the number of RTCs, perhaps a 30mph blanket limit on race days would be the answer?
Dogsbody
|
|
08-06-2015, 06:49 PM |
|
numptydad
Member
![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png) ![*](images/star.png)
Posts: 90
Threads: 6
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation:
0
|
RE: Challenges Facing The TT
(08-06-2015, 06:49 PM)Dogsbody Wrote: (08-06-2015, 05:12 PM)excollier Wrote: Can someone remind me why the early morning practices were stopped please? It used to be all done and dusted by 7 a.m. and roads opened. I know, as a marshal in the late eighties, it was a bit tough getting up at 4 a.m. but the roads were quiet and the marshals and the very hardy were the only traffic, fewer accidents.
Early morning practices are not viable now as there would not be enough marshals in place. The current requirements are far higher than what was considered sufficient some years ago.
With regard to the number of RTCs, perhaps a 30mph blanket limit on race days would be the answer?
Dogsbody
Ah, yes, the perennial problem of marshals, they clearly need ME again, crocked right leg, arthritis, trapped nerve and all; still, with all that, if I could afford to get there, I'd do it
Dave
|
|
08-06-2015, 08:02 PM |
|
|