(29-06-2015, 08:08 PM)scaramanga Wrote: only ever happen if all were using gps trackers

Surprised nobody has done it or sponsored it .. would make good saleable viewing.

I agree with the opinion that the big bikes are getting to fast, and that newcomers should be restricted to smaller bikes.
I would also like to be more harsh than 'wheelchairs and body bags' by naming newcommers that have suffered that fate. However, when I made a comment about Peter Hickman going to fast to quick, I was shot to peices on this forum, and it would be very insensitive to the familys if I did. Somebody needs to say or do something, and soon.
I would also counter that by saying I was wrong about some riders being recruted. I was against Danny Webb coming to the TT, as I felt that at the time, it was his only option to raise his profile, and thought he would be part of the 'to quick, to soon brigade'. However, he has aproached it in the correct way. The same for Adam Child. I thought he was rid
eing at the TT from a journalist point of veiw, and if anything happened to him, be would get the same hatchet job from MCN that we did after Gus Scott lost his life at Kirk Michael, but again, inspite of his get off this year, Adam has shown a love and respect for the Mountain Course, that has seen him improve year after year without trying to join the 126mph club first time out.
There seems to be more emphasise put on the lap speed being broken year after year latley, and the constant reference to 'the fastest newcomer' by the organisers in there press releases and the media on the Island

Sorry Alfie but you say (  once your sat on your machine nothing else matters ) well I am very sorry but there is one hell of a lot that matters your safety my safety and the safety of your fellow competitors not to mention the punter sat on the hedge back and the organisers MUST and most of the time do their best to make everyone's experience as SAFE as it is possible to do in spite of the don't change anything brigade , sorry but I say it once again we must move with the times ,
people are making comparisons with Macau race distance 57.042 miles , and the North west 200 that was as its name implies run over 200 miles is now run as 53.82 mile legs they are totally different or have moved with the times as we must , or run the risk of losing what we all love for ever

and ps in answer to your question (  really mate - what's that comment based on ? ) it is based on the principal that the organisers have to at times protect riders from themselves otherwise we would still have some turning up riding in flat caps saying well thats how we have always done it we know what we are doing  , no we have to have rules and we have to change those rules as we go to stay as on top of safety or ????
and finally can I through your closing words strait back at you  ( ... Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. )

I rest my case

(29-06-2015, 08:19 PM)c iom tt Wrote: I agree with the opinion that the big bikes are getting to fast, and that newcomers should be restricted to smaller bikes.
I would also like to be more harsh than 'wheelchairs and body bags' by naming newcommers that have suffered that fate. However, when I made a comment about Peter Hickman going to fast to quick, I was shot to peices on this forum, and it would be very insensitive to the familys if I did. Somebody needs to say or do something, and soon.
I would also counter that by saying I was wrong about some riders being recruted. I was against Danny Webb coming to the TT, as I felt that at the time, it was his only option to raise his profile, and thought he would be part of the 'to quick, to soon brigade'. However, he has aproached it in the correct way. The same for Adam Child. I thought he was rid
eing at the TT from a journalist point of veiw, and if anything happened to him, be would get the same hatchet job from MCN that we did after Gus Scott lost his life at Kirk Michael, but again, inspite of his get off this year, Adam has shown a love and respect for the Mountain Course, that has seen him improve year after year without trying to join the 126mph club first time out.
There seems to be more emphasise put on the lap speed being broken year after year latley, and the constant reference to 'the fastest newcomer' by the organisers in there press releases and the media on the Island

Just for the record, you do realize that there are only two people in your "126 Club" hardly a club!

Every now and again outstanding newcomers come along that just gel instantly with the course, others like to build up gradually, each to their own such is life.

And its a load of rubbish about seeding the top 20 too Edward the top 20 don't go away in order of speed from the previous year. John mc usually away at no. 1 md 3 wd 6 gm 8 all what numbers they sell merchandise plastered in. John mc was caught by the top 5 all week up until the senior. People will always get caught on the road it's a fact of racing. Should always get underway in numerical order.

(29-06-2015, 08:56 PM)Steady the Edward Wrote: Sorry Alfie but you say (  once your sat on your machine nothing else matters ) well I am very sorry but there is one hell of a lot that matters your safety my safety and the safety of your fellow competitors not to mention the punter sat on the hedge back and the organisers MUST and most of the time do their best to make everyone's experience as SAFE as it is possible to do in spite of the don't change anything brigade , sorry but I say it once again we must move with the times ,
people are making comparisons with Macau race distance 57.042 miles , and the North west 200 that was as its name implies run over 200 miles is now run as 53.82 mile legs they are totally different or have moved with the times as we must , or run the risk of losing what we all love for ever

and ps in answer to your question (  really mate - what's that comment based on ? ) it is based on the principal that the organisers have to at times protect riders from themselves otherwise we would still have some turning up riding in flat caps saying well thats how we have always done it we know what we are doing  , no we have to have rules and we have to change those rules as we go to stay as on top of safety or ????
and finally can I through your closing words strait back at you  ( ... Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. )

I rest my case

You've never sat on the line to know what's going through the racers head so you can't really comment on that can you Edward. 

(29-06-2015, 09:00 PM)DBD 34 Wrote: Just for the record, you do realize that there are only two people in your "126 Club" hardly a club!

Every now and again outstanding newcomers come along that just gel instantly with the course, others like to build up gradually, each to their own such is life.

Only two people have done 126mph laps?
I did not know that.
I thought there was a lot more

Two newcomers: Josh Brooks and Peter Hickman

But I never said anything about what a rider thinks on the line the quote that I posted in brackets was what Alfie said not me 

Apart from going as fast as is humanly and a bit more than possible in those moments absolutely nothing else ever crossed my mind .. nothing at all. You'd all do very well to take into account some opinions and info from the guys who are currently committing all they have to the cause rather than discussing what you think is best for them or at least coming up with some base to your discussion other than "somebody else says your bike is too fast".

People have been saying bikes are getting too fast for 100 years now.  I think if you want to make it safer then take away the emphasis on lap records and fastest this or fastest that.  That said, I do accept that riders will always want to try and go faster - that's kind of the point isn't it?

For an example, at least in my opinion, about how a newcomer should tackle the TT, I would point you at Dan Cooper.  No big fanfare when he arrived and he's just steadily built speed every time he goes out.  Time is on his side - although he's been around for ever he's still in his 20s, so I've no doubt he'll get somewhere near the top and done so without scaring anyone out of their wits.

Back to my example of TT riders racing 4 abreast at the NW200 & UGP, the length of the track or the race are not relevant.  What matters is that the scenery there is hard and hurts when you hit it, just the same as the TT but the riders will and do race wheel to wheel (at biblically high speeds) and they will come across (for want of a better term) back markers.

If it's unsafe to have riders in proximity at the TT then why do the solos set off in pairs in practice? 

Anyhow, trying to get back to the original point of the thread - something else I'd like to change would be riders having the same numbers in every race.  I'd change the numbers of the top guys around a bit for each race, just to alter the dynamic of the race a bit.  Anyone notice how it's become almost common place to have multiple winners in a week since this regimentation of numbering started?

Thank you Sticky.

What was the Title of this thread gentlemen ??

Seems to me that we were starting to veer off topic a little and down a road that we have been down once before with no agreed upon conclusion.

Can we steer this back to the original Topic please.

Malcolm.

No problem, sorry. How about a dedicated/sponsored and free suspension set up/rebuild/advice service for newcomers and their machines which have not been round the TT course previously. Suspension and a machine that steers well must be the hardest thing to get sorted for a newcomer so how about some help for them ?.

I'd like to see the riders go off in pairs again. This would limit the number of riders being overtaken by the quicker men. Would be nice to see home made specials in the Senior race just like the Britten of yesteryear

I like Alfie Noakes idea with the free suspension assistance and set up ,this to me is even more relevant for the Manx newcomers where most riders are coming to the island via the amatuer self financed route and a lot having never raced on the roads before and do not really know what to expect set up wise..

But if they were to set off in pairs how would that effect the numerical order thing ? would it not get the think they know brigade all confused ??


.

starting in pairs may not be a good idea i witnessed a incident during a parade lap where sadly a rider lost his life at st ninianns
im pritty sure people could work out the 1 and 2 would start together followed by 3 and 4 and so on its a lot easier than following the current methord
for me theres not much wrong with the tt as it is maybe a few issues with the select groups who like to charge what they think they can get away with rather than what they charge all the rest of the year and im not just talking about manx bassed people

Bray Hill in pairs again - I am sweating thinking about that

But then Harvey you have to remember that according to one knowledgeable contributor of this forum and I quote

(   It should be borne in mind that these guys race against eachother wheel to wheel on the Irish roads and most pertinently four abreast flat out at the NW200 and UGP.  They're used to it and can deal with it. ) sorry Sticks couldnt resist

but that is only a small amount of the field , but it doesn't matter about the rest they are only foreigners ???

The only advantage of setting off in pairs would allow for a larger amount of riders to enter, but I dont think that is what the organisers want anyway.
With regards to the safety aspect of it, It is happening now anyway! How many times do we see riders circulating together, or pulling out of the pits together to blast off down Bray Hill.
I have some pictures I took at Ginger Hall of the second lap of the Superbike race that shows how close they are riding next to each other. I will post them tonight.