I could be that some folk will think that I am being a little flippant in my attitude to racing, especially by shrugging it off with a "hey ho" that's racing. Not a bit of it. I take racing very seriously, but there isn't one rider out there who doesn't understand the issues of overtaking competitors, and not only on the TT course. However Hammerhead sums up the situation perfectly, the most difficult overtakes can be a rider of similar ability, and choosing the spot to overtake is really tricky. What catches the fast men out with lapping a rider is the speed differential IN THE WRONG SPOT.
With Hammerhead confirming the difficulty of overtaking riders of similar ability, it confirms in my mind that the system is flawed. These "Top 20", are the targeted riders for a win, they are the ones (it would seem), trying the hardest for the win, or at least a decent top finish, yet they are the ones facing the greatest difficulty with being caught, or catching up other top riders. In fact they don't mind a bit. Bruce chooses his number 5, just as Hutchy chooses his etc etc. They are not perturbed by the prospect of overtaking, so why on earth should the riders out of the top 20? There has always been scope to bring the odd rider forward who clearly is setting times ahead of his number, but that just results in minor programme changes.
As it is today, it's a real dog's breakfast, and I've hardly touched on the dangers caused by trying to qualify in order to  gain the lowest number.
My first TT proper was 1984 (I did the 1975 Production). I was the Senior MGP winner from the previous year. The ACU gave me No. 73 and 80 respectively for the two big races. I finished 9th and 7th. I never remotely worried about my start number in either race.
OK, things have moved on, but, come on, what is the problem?

Looking at the Senior speeds there's a 13mph average speed differential between the top and bottom of the result - this prob works out at 132 - 120 single lap speeds, I know lots of the course is blind but you're still not going to come across anybody unexpectedly wombling along at those speeds as both machines are covering distance at the same time - you'll catch a glimpse of the slower bike up ahead of you and then it's your job to set him up and do him with superior entry/exit speed without scrubbing off loads of speed by getting right up his chuff off throttle or with the extra bhp a front runner has just blow by on the straighter bits. The guys at the front must know at the start they'll be catching the slower paced bikes, it's all part n parcel of keeping your speed up and the seemingly lost to history black art of overtaking, we don't have riders "touring" any more on a bike with small issues which was bloomin' dangerous and MD came across an accident(it happens) he didn't ride up the chuff of the slower bike, by his words he had noticed the slower guy and decided not to pass him on the entry. Go and drive/ride down a "cough" private road at speed with a mate and see if your mate doing 13mph less than you telescopes up on you so quickly it comes as a big surprise. Does anybody know dates/lap speeds when the front guys started catching the later guys, what the lap speeds were then and how many accidents have occurred in that time because of it ? ..

Well Nick I have to say that I agree entirely with your last post, I have ridden at the manx and production TT many times and I was always happy at the end of practice week when the lap times between me and my starting partner was greater either I was a lot faster or he was.

To make it more interesting, F1 car racing are lifting the exhaust noise restrictions for next year to possibly zero restriction, would this work at the TT?,     it only takes the faces of people when the Honda six passes them to say yes.

I can't imagine a single race fan that would object - least of all me as I remember the Honda 6 being raced in anger along with all the other fantastic sounding things there were in the 60s. Sadly, though I suspect there are plenty of residents who would not share our joy.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that there are no noise restrictions at the TT.

as long as they sound better than the norton im all for it
loud isnt always a good sound think norton should start to use a little baffle at least
now the mv garry johnson rode and the moto2 bike olly lindsell rode they sounded ok

i agree with spannerman the honda six is a great tunned sound

The Nortons sound like a top fuel dragster  spitting and popping and banging.  The Honda sixes sound special too.  You'd never get a 4 cylinder bike to sound as haunting even with 4 separate pipes.

Splashdown, you finished 7th from starting 80th!, bloody hell, You must have passed 40+ other bikes

Well that may well be, but I had almost two hours to do it!

(05-07-2015, 11:04 PM)warrior Wrote: I could be wrong but I seem to recall that there are no noise restrictions at the TT.

The regulations I found on line (which were for 2014) say you're right, no noise limits for Supersport or Superbike machines.
There are no noise limits in F1 either. F1 cars are quieter than they used to be because of the turbos taking as much energy as possible out of the exhaust.

In recent yearsat the TT, only the Norton, the MV and the Moto 2 bikes had open exhausts. I would have thought if there was any power advantage to be had by having open exhausts where there are no restrictions, they would all be doing it?
There is also the question of rider fatigue, even with ear plugs to take into account.
To keep this on topic,If it were possible, I would like to see ( hear ) open pipes on race bikes at the TT as a change for next year.

Some sort of incentive to run other than an inline four cylinder engine in the 1000/600 races would be good. Prize for the first v twin or v four home etc? Might also encourage those a little further down the order, assuming the front runners stick to inline fours?

(24-06-2015, 10:45 AM)Dougboy Wrote: Riders going off in number order right down the field. My 2015 Raceguide remains unopened and I won't bother to buy one again.
(Apparently no one has complained to the organizers, so they assume everyone must be happy)

I'm with Dougboy on this one even if the riders from no20 onwards have to change their numbers and a new start list is issued at least then us mere spectators would know what is going on down the field which is an integral part of TT racing. 
As for no one complaining to organisers itd more they don't want to listen to us on the other side of the fence how about a poll on to see who does want this? 

Well said Bill. I'm voting for the old system.

I've not heard any consistent complaints from riders about the system either, does anybody know who came up with the "idea" in the first place and what info/stats it was based on as in just what was the problem to start with ?

Apologies for drifting off topic a bit but going back to the changes made to the TT in the interests of "safety" which have been bought into by some people - I've just been watching qualifying for the World Touring Cars at Vila Real in Portugal. This is a proper street circuit with flat out 6th gear bends. When questioned about safety, the guy who just set pole said: "This is motor racing. We're not playing with Barbie dolls."

For those of us who don't race, one of the reasons is that we simply don't have the right kind of mentality. We, perhaps unwittingly, look at it from a risk averse perspective and end up doing things that don't need doing & fix things that weren't broke!

For those that weren't there, the greatest EVER race around the TT course was the 2006 Junior MGP where Craig Atkinson beat Derek Brien by the width of a tyre. They raced in pairs, set off at 1 & 2 and raced wheel to wheel (literally) for 4 laps. I can't recall any particular problems associated with that. All I remember is the best race I ever saw. The potential to repeat that is now denied us for no good reason that I can think of.

I think it is time to look again and possibly take back some of the spectator areas that were  taken from us following the rash and harsh initial review.

Kilbil

(13-07-2015, 11:19 AM)kilbil Wrote: I think it is time to look again and possibly take back some of the spectator areas that were  taken from us following the rash and harsh initial review.

Kilbil

Agreed!
There is a section at Balaspur that I used to watch from that was restricted, yet I have noticed in the last few years that there is a film crew there. How can it be safe for them but not us?

I think it comes down to the cost of insuring the event.  Restricted areas are "moderately dangerous", and not open to the public, as the added risk would significantly increase the premiums;  race officials may be there as they are covered by the ACU insurance;  photographers and film crews must have appropriate insurance to be allowed in these spots.  Prohibited areas are potentially too dangerous even to risk journalists