Hi Gang , Just to let you all know that this topic is not going away to easy.
Im in the process of putting together a Questionaire for Riders attending this years Manx Grand Prix and to get their views on what we have been discussing on this thread over the past few months i will let you all know more near the end of practice week , Have an enjoyable and Safe Manx one and all cheers Irish Ago...... :shock:

Guys, can I ask you to look at a thread on iomtt.com started by Paul entitled 'The great 2 stroke debate'.

It looks as though there's little chance of getting what we want, so I've pitched an idea for a 'Sound of Thunder' type race run in two classes with for provision to run 250s in one of them. Paul's probably at the Ulster, so won't have seen it yet but I'd appreciate some feedback. If I'm talking rubbish, feel free to tell me - I won't be offended! Much...

Ago, the reason I proposed a 2 class structure would be to allow the SV650 in! I guess there's no ideal solution but I'm just trying to think of something that the organisers won't just reject out of hand and that will provide some different sights and sounds for the spectators.

I have stayed out of this one so far because I am as positive as can be that any changes to the present formatt is definately not going to happen.

As anyone who knows me will be aware I was a dedicted two stroke rider apart from a very long time ago on an MV, CR93 and a couple of Aermacchis I only ever raced Bultacos, TR 250. TR500 and Production T20 and T500 Suzuki's followed by TD2 TD3 and TZ250 and TZ 350 Maxtons almost everyone if not all of these machines have have produced rider entry or small dealer and private entry sponsor winners and lap records in virtually ever class.

Times have changed, no longer is the TT an event where the private rider or entrant could pitch there ability in both riding ability and or machine preperation against the the big manufacturers and win races and break lap records. To name just a small few Padgetts, Dugdales, Crooks, Gerald Brown, Terry Sheperd, Bill Smith, Mal Carter. yes and Tom Loughridge just a few of an endless list of private sponsors and rider entrants.


We are now in a world of commercial and merchandising priority,not a sport, the fact that the TT was a concept for all and sundry to pitch their skills and ability with the possibility of succes in the worlds toughest motor cycle race no longer exists.

The main Japanese manufactuers now dictate the rules and the TT is simply a marketing tool, the main target market today is 600 and 1000 machines, their is no interest in what either the spectators or private rider or sponsor want.

The official policy is that only that only production based machines I.E 600/1000cc will be raced at the TT because that is what we are marketing for maximumm profit for our company and shareholders. "There is no lomger a vast and profitable retail market for 50/ 125/250/350/400/500 and 750cc machines. SO WE WILL NOT AGREE TO YOU HAVING TT RACES FOR THEM and will will not give any factory support if you do".

Somebody convince me I am wrong when I say I am of the opinion that this is the official position of at least one major Japanese manufacturer or indeed even one individual employee of a major factory and the IOM Government, ACU and possibly others have allowed the TT to become a marketing tool to suit a vested financial interest agenda and have allowed themselves to be dictated to solely by factory commercial interests to the grave and serious detriment of the one of the worlds greatest sporting events.

Did someone say to, or even put it in writing to the TT organiers, "if you do not run the TT exactly for machines we want to market with no other races at all, and to the time schedule we want it run we will not give it any factory support whatsever????

Sorry but I guarantee you we will never see machines that are not production based raced in the TT again in the near future unless a new interest is shown, remember the Japanese machines did not exist not so very long ago, was not the the 50cc TT introduced to suit the world marketing demand for such machines.

Who knows the Chinese emerging market may change things are they noy emulating the Japanese in the 50/124 and 250cc motor cycles markets?

I think Paul Phillips has already clearly indicated on various forums what I have said about production based machines being the format in in the future and at this moment in times any pie in the sky fantasies about any changes will very sadly come to nothing.

I personally regret the passing of the 125 250 350 TT races as much anyone but at this time sadly I can see no change in the format in the near future.

Tom, you're probably right unfortunately...but I guess all we can do is express our opinions in what is hopefully a constructive manner and hope for the best.

So, does the TT need manufacturer support? Would it not be better for everyone if it was supported by enthusiastic privateer teams? I for one wouldn't be remotely concerned if they weren't involved. I know it's good for the marketing suits but is it really good for the event in reality?

Tom,
You banged the nail on the head about 'production based' machines racing at the TT - sad but true. Thankfully the 2 Stroke classes continue to entertain road racing supporters at the Manx, Southern, Scarborough and the Irish National Road Races.

Well put Tom,
You have said what i lot of people have been thinking for ages,
Certain people getting there way with regards fromat etc, on how the races should be run,

But is it me, are the powers that be, missing 1 big factor for next year?
Its a 100 years old, commercial interest shouldnt bl___ dy be a factor,

Its a celebration of what the event means to the paying public, evokeing memories, seeing bikes like the stokers getting arun out on the course for one last time

Joe public pay a lot of money to get there, surely in this next year, there has to be a bit of give & take with regards to an extra race,
That most of the public would go GREAT!!! that was different, The highlight of the week!!


but there again i could be wrong!!

I think at this stage it is a pure case of if we dont try colletively as a group we wont get and i think it is very much worth trying for, even if only for the 100th year of TT Racing....Irish Ago.... 8)

Well i am going to throw my thoughts into the great strokers debate & wether it should be re instated or not .
Firstly i have never raced a bike although i was involved when my brother raced , i have no real idea on technicalities of bikes , & i dont know how much money is generated during the TT , i know how much can be made in the Hotel industry having been brought up in one , but i dont know how much the goverment banks , but hey they are entitled to make some money somewhere , at the end of the day this is still regarded by many as the greatest free show on earth .
Ok the boats are a litle OTT as some may say are the flight charges , but go to any big festival anywhere in the world & its no different .
I have spectated at every race from when my parents took me as a baby up till this years event , the only one missed being of all TT s the millenium TT due to working off the Island & taking exams at the same time , which i failed anyway , mind elsewhere methinks .
Anyway back to the issue , two stokes should they be here now , in my opinion no they should not , dont get me wrong i loved to watch the strokers as much as any road race fan some of the races involving these machines where awesome , in the mid seventies you had GP spec equivalent TZs being raced here by Mortimer , Williams , Tom Herron , Takazumi Katayama & a few others all who too in the GPs a well as he roads .
The early seventies onwards the programme was stacked with TZ Yamahas in all classes , you could run a 350 TZ in the Senior , The Junior & The Formula 750 / Classic race , throw in a 250 & perhaps a proddy three bikes top , which is no different to now , maybe two would suffice now , but as is the norm the top riders will have one for each class & each
spec . Which has never been any different .
One comment many are making is all the racing is the same , well if had been here in 74 you would have winessed Phil Carpenter winning the Senior on a TZ 350 , Charlie Williams the 250 on a Yam , Clive Horton the 125 0n a Yam , Tony Rutter the 350 on a Yam & Chas Mortimer the F750 on yes you guessed a 350 TZ , a real mixed bag there , & that was the diet of racing for many years until the 4 strokes started appearing , or should i say re appearing , as they had already been here en masse before the first two stroke armada in the mid sixties .
Dont know if any of the people who are moaning now would have moaned then , or are some just getting a little old & dont like change .
This years event was one of the best for years & not just because of the weather . The entry was as good if not bettere than it has been for a long time , every single manufacturer had top representaion on the grid some like Hawk testing the water out & i am sure coming back next year .
The quality of newcomers recruited over the last couple of years has been outstanding Cameron Donald Wow! Les Shand , Jeremy Toye & fellow American Mark Miller this year , Mark Buckley , & many more .
I spoke to Ian Lougher on the friday after the Senior & he coud not believe that he had just lapped in excess of 128 & still only managed fourth place .
The Centeneray promises to be even better with more teams possibly entering as well as the ones already here .
More top newcomers as well .
Why on earth would they want to re introduce a class that is slowly but surely dwindling , the numbers are not there , the depth of class of the field is not there , most of the bikes are a few years old .
My mate Shorty was running a 400 Honda here a couple of years ago & lying in around third place when it went bang , the bike was 10 years old .
This is the TT where the very latest the manufacturers produce should be on the grid , obviously Moto GP bikes will never race here but we have WSBK & BSB spec bikes here which is brilliant .
A classic race is a definite no no the MGP runs one & very successfully . Singles where a waste of time , there proggression was such that the first race won by Moodie in 94 was the quickest of the six singles run up to 2000 .
No matter what people say the races here will be & have always been swayed by the manufacturers products of the current generation , & in spite of what some think the TT needs the works teams & manufacturers to carry on supporting the event otherwise it will become another MGP , not that there is anything wrong with the MGP it is a fantasic event run well by the MMCC but a different animal to the TT .
Personally i think the format is pretty good at the moment , the racing this year was asolutely superb . Speeds fantastic , think Paul & Milky have got there eye on the ball , maybe some of the older members dont like to see young pups getting in & shaking it a bit .
Anyway thats my opinion , uneducated , untechnical , just what i think .
PS someone mentioned the sidecars in one of the earlier postings , the sidecars ae an integral & much needed part of the TT long may they keep going .
Cheers Shaun

If anyone has read David C's announcment on the 2007 TT it is abundently clear there never was going to be a mystery event.
So much for open discussion, input and feedback.
If people in positions of authority (not David) are to engage the public in a duplicious dialogue please be advised that you can only do it once. Credibility is now nil.

Well gang just to let you all know that the TT Races in 2007 will have no race for any of the following 125,s 250.s 400.s or anything like that.
I spoke to the powers that be and it all hinged on Practice and what the manufacturers want in the foreseeable future at the TT Races so no matter how many Riders names are put forward it is an nonstarter so for TT 2007 its more of the same but their is talk of a futher class in 2008 as to what it will be i have no idea. So lets make the most of what we got for the moment . Heres looking forward to the Racing next week here at the Manx.... :roll: