andy21aa Wrote:

oatssi Wrote:Got take a tank of hydrogen and shoot a hole in it. See what happens.

Nothing! Hydrogen, like petrol needs oxygen to burn, and as there is no oxygen inside the tank nothing will happen. However the hydrogen escaping from the hole will dissapate into the atmosphere (being lighter than air), whereas petrol will spill out creating a fire hazard and may end up polluting the ground around it.

Incidentally, when a carbon-based fuel like gasoline burns, glowing hot soot particles transfer the heat to its surroundings — potentially including you. But because hydrogen contains no carbon, it burns cleanly without a residue of hot soot, producing little radiant energy. This means that a victim would have to be practically in the flame in order to get burned.

I'm sure they told the passengers and crew of the Hindenburg something similar!!!!

tripod Wrote:I'm sure they told the passengers and crew of the Hindenburg something similar!!!!

The Hindenburg disaster was actually caused by the flammability of the airship covering, not the hydrogen.
http://www.hydrogenus.com/advocate/ad22zepp.htm

andy21aa Wrote:

tripod Wrote:I'm sure they told the passengers and crew of the Hindenburg something similar!!!!

The Hindenburg disaster was actually caused by the flammability of the airship covering, not the hydrogen.
http://www.hydrogenus.com/advocate/ad22zepp.htm

Ah but she is the Manager of Publications for the National Hydrogen Association.

SHE WOULD SAY THAT, WOULDN'T SHE.

andy21aa Wrote:

oatssi Wrote:Got take a tank of hydrogen and shoot a hole in it. See what happens.

Nothing! Hydrogen, like petrol needs oxygen to burn, and as there is no oxygen inside the tank nothing will happen. However the hydrogen escaping from the hole will dissapate into the atmosphere (being lighter than air), whereas petrol will spill out creating a fire hazard and may end up polluting the ground around it.

Incidentally, when a carbon-based fuel like gasoline burns, glowing hot soot particles transfer the heat to its surroundings — potentially including you. But because hydrogen contains no carbon, it burns cleanly without a residue of hot soot, producing little radiant energy. This means that a victim would have to be practically in the flame in order to get burned.

OK, so if you mix hydrogen with oxygen and add a spark (such the situation in a crash) nothing will happen. Thanks for clarifying, look forward to not being there to witness the results.

If you put TTxGP into google news you get about 5 hits. 2 from IOM Today and one from Manx Radio. There's been a total lack of response from Paul Philips, Adrian Earnshaw, ACU Events etc. So either this ain't happening or someone's let the cat out of the bag a good deal earlier than the aforementioned might have liked?

We can't have 250s because apparently there isn't a practice slot for them but we can have time for whatever these things turn out to be. I won't pretend to be an expert in the thermo-dynamics of hydrogen but anyone guarantee that a slow speed get off at say Quarterbridge won't result in the rider getting vapourised and God knows how many spectators getting cut down by shrapnel?

As TT Development manager I'd expect Paul to be well versed on this, so come on mate - fill us in, so we can work out if it's a good or a bad thing!

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Is it just me or is this the most crazy thing ever. A couple of things I have noticed about this -

1 The organisers seem to be a guy called Azair Hussien who I've never heard of and the IOM Environment Minister. I thought the Tourist Board were the organisers of the TT with something like a 20 or 25 year license to do so? Surely anything that takes place as part of the TT is up to them?
2 No mention of the ACU. Surely as the governing body they will be required to license anything that takes place?

I think it is a PR stunt by a business man and nothing to do with the 'real' TT organisers. I can smell a rat a mile away. Someone is trying to get rich probably!

What's the betting the 2009 TT comes with a pretty similar programme to this year, with a parade for Honda probably, and not an electric bike ridden and built by a student (blimin eck) in sight!

Jeff

If they can't make the numbers add up to run a 250cc or 125cc race do they think there will be a big enough entry for a green party pleasing stunt like this would be.

A one lap TT would prove nothing for any class, petrol heads or tree huggers. Even before the bikes the Isle of Man was an endurance test as well as a test of speed. Repackaging the TT may be ok in some areas but if they reduce the distance it will become a sideshow.

On the other hand, make it a minimum field of 60, a mass start, and I will be booking my seat at the bottom of Bray or at Quarter Bridge!

oatssi Wrote:

DCLUCIE Wrote:Forgive me for being a bit thick, OK alot thick, but surely a half empty tank of fuel or even an empty tank that used to have fuel in is more dangerous as the gases or fumes are more volatile than the fuel itself.

Got take a tank of hydrogen and shoot a hole in it. See what happens.

Reminds me of one of my favourite experiments during my time as a Chemistry teacher:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/456822/ind...en_rocket/
Still, it's one thing having fun in the lab & quite another on the TT course....

Some official comment at last:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Green-TT-...4235525.jp

http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=22434

The more I read about this, and about him, the stronger the smell of b*llsh1t.

I still believe that to avoid the nasty Hydro-Carbon Petroleum fuels, the bikes could be modified to run on the good old renewable METHANOL. True the calorific value is lower than that of petrol so you need more of it to release the same power. Fuel tanks could be bigger or more fuel stops planned.
The best bit is that the bikes could be set up to run on Carstrol R only, yet another naturally grown raw material.
All ok just so long as the farmers don't reduce the output of essential foods such as hops and barley.

Some useful amounts of fuel could be distilled (using solar power, of course) from the natural waste products leaving the bogs of the Bushys Beer Tent, etc.

All that and a green Francis Beart Manx Norton, -------

Sounds like we'd all need to drink more beer to make this work. Personally, I am prepared to make the sacrifices required, and will start the process this Sunday in the Sidings in Castletown, in the company of many environmentally aware sidecar people.
Save the planet! Drink more real beer (especially Dark Island)!

In keeping with the new non petrol event the organisers have sold the sponsorship contract for the course car to Adler who will use their wood burning model to fire up interest.