Tel
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
From MGP website:-
Post Classic Eligibility Regulations
There has been a certain amount of speculation regarding these regulations so I am taking this opportunity to clarify the situation and explain the thinking of the Manx Motor Cycle Club in making the decisions that were made.
The first problem was “Where can we put an extra race?” At our meeting last Grand Prix week with the club’s ambassadors, there was almost total agreement that the Newcomers race should not be dropped even though numbers of competitors had fallen over the years. None of the other races could be dropped and trying to fit another race into the programme was not possible bearing in mind the cancellations that bedevilled last year’s event. We cannot have a race on the Saturday because of the loss of valuable practice time and the Manx Two Day trial so the only answer was to run it at the same time as the Newcomers race. Although there has always been a lot of interest in a Post Classic race, we do not know how many competitors will actually enter, especially with the current economic climate, so we thought that a full grid for the first race of the week was better than running two separate races with limited numbers in a programme that would create so many problems for all concerned should there be any postponements..
The second problem was “What should the regulations be for the Post Classic machines?” I am the Chief Technical Official for the Manx Grand Prix but I am not an Eligibility Officer for Classic machines. The only time we see Classic machines on the Isle of Man is on the Southern 100 circuit and at the Grand Prix so I have to lean heavily on people with the necessary knowledge as far as eligibility is concerned. The Classic regulations have been refined and modified over 25years, with the Post Classics we were starting from scratch so I consulted one of our ambassadors who is very knowledgeable for the eras that we were looking at. Yes, I only consulted one person because I have found out that as far as regulations go, you cannot please all the people, all of the time and the larger the group, the more diverse the opinions become. So my brief to the ambassador was to have two classes, two stroke and four stroke with as few regulations as possible to make it easy as possible to enter and race but bearing in mind that the machines would be sharing the course with Newcomers.
Please remember that this is the first year for the Post Classics and it may be that I have got it wrong but we needed a starting point and these regulations have been used in order to get as many machines on the grid as possible and to make the race the spectacle it deserves to be. For next year, we may have to modify the criteria but until we have tried it, we do not know how things will pan out.
I have made two important changes
The requirement for standard ignition systems on the two strokes was not a good idea and has been removed.
The cut off date for 500cc two strokes has been changed to 31st December 1982.
One final clarification is that modified road machines will be considered for the 126-250cc class with the cut off dates 1st January 1985 - 31st December 1991 but priority will be given to genuine racing machines.
Jeff Kirby. Chief Technical Officer.
POST CLASSIC ELIGIBILITY
Four Stroke
501-1000cc 2 valves per cylinder, cut off date 31st December 1981.
Two stroke
126-250cc Grand Prix Factory Bikes Steel frame or period aluminium frame, any brakes, any wheels, cut off date 31st December 1984.
126-250cc. Standard frames, Standard fairing, no airboxes. Any brakes. Cut off dates 1st January 1985 - 31st December 1991.
251-350cc Steel frame, any brakes, any wheels. Cut off date 31st December 1984.
351-500cc Two stroke up to 31st December 1982, Steel frame, any brakes, period fairing.
"Long live Two Strokes"
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11-02-2009, 10:53 AM |
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cargo
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
Just to clarify a point TT competitors are allowed in all Post classic classes
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11-02-2009, 03:51 PM |
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Will Loder
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
I've got involved in this debate a stack of times in a load of different threads now......I still think its nice having the TT riders there, Farquar didn't walk the 500 race this year and the Gary Johnson wont be returning on the MV. If I was a big money sponsor I'd want my bike to win.....and to do that you need a quality rider on it, Oversby and Richardson are easily good enough to compete at the TT and there arent many riders of that calibre in classic racing who want to do the manx, so who exactly is the big money sponsor supposed to give his bike to?
Also have you considered that it would be no eaiser to win a replica if you took away the TT riders, the 500 time would only have been 20 seconds slower and the best TT superstar in the junior classic only came 3rd..... All removing the TT riders would achieve, is making the race a lot less competiitve at the front. For my dad beating the TT riders was part of the attraction, after all, to say you are the best you have to beat the best......winning by miles is boring and I would see it as a hollow victory if it was against a considerably lower calbre of rider.
Also it can be proved mathematically that from 1997 to 2007 it got progressively easier to win a replica as the race times stoppepd getting faster whlist the course and machines continued to improve.....the last 2 years has merely seen the classes return to the state it was in when Bob Heath (a former TT, GP and factory rider) dominated them.
You have to remember that the Manx is the 'premier' event for classics (and now post classics), so the best bikes, riders, teams, mechanics and tuners should be competing in it. If there was a classic race at the TT then fair enough they should be there.....but if that happened the classic races at the manx would die.
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14-02-2009, 11:20 PM |
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sqwelch
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
Quote:Back to the original topic although the TZR would be eligible for the Lightweight remember that they still practice with the 600’s so unless you ran the TZR and (assuming it’s eligible) the RD in the post classic you wouldn’t get any more practice time only the extra race.
I looked at last years regs and the lightweight class is listed as practicing with the classics/ultralightweights???
Is it going to be different this year?
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17-02-2009, 09:22 AM |
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cargo
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
Generally speaking Lightweights practise with 600s.
However if you have a 600 ride as well then the CoC will grant permission to practise your lightweight in the Classic /Ultralightweight session.
To avoid confusion Classic Lightweight machines practise with the rest of the classics.
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17-02-2009, 02:57 PM |
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Will Loder
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
Well, said Doug, If the TT riders were so good, then they could win in the 'fairer' Junior classic, after that race Ryan complaind that Paul Coward's bike was "so, much faster" it was 4mph faster......He has a 10mph advantage over everyone in the senior!
I know for a fact Alan Oversby will be riding something this year that will blow away any Paton on top speed, Ollie Linsdell is also riding a Paton (that is quicker than Ryan's through the speed traps) and given Ollie races this thing regularly and blows away the top uk classic riders on it, then there is a very real chance that the lap and race records will be absolutely dessimated.
If Alan were to win with a new lap and race record would you lot still be complaining? He is a 'normal' manx bloke who doesnt ride at the TT.
Doug I remember when only the top 6 were getting replicas, and we were finishing 7th, just made us want it even more......the whole idea of racing is to improve!!! it seems like people just want to stand and wait for everyone else to slow down.
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17-02-2009, 11:04 PM |
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Carolynn
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
Tomcat Wrote:Will Loder Wrote:If Alan were to win with a new lap and race record would you lot still be complaining? He is a 'normal' manx bloke who doesnt ride at the TT.
The short answer is "no" Will, if Alan or anybody else managed to do it without resorting to space shuttle technology or budgets. You didn't find the same complaints being raised when Bob Heath and Bill Swallow were setting the races alight, because the bikes they were using were by and large what anybody with a bit of care and talent could produce in their shed.
It's a big "IF" though.
As someone who grew up in the MGP paddock, more specifically in the Classic racing side of the paddock, I remember an awful lot of grumbling about Bob Heath cleaning up, year after year, on his very expensive, Titanium G50's, which were a tool no-one else in the paddock could afford at the time. I'm sure Will can recall the same?!
I'm afraid you can't please all of the people all of the time and there will always be people who don't agree with certain things, whether it be rider or machine eligability.
There are pro's and con's to allowing TT riders into the MGP and I can see points of view on both sides, but, I for one, will be cheering if Alan does do it! ;0)
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13-05-2009, 08:10 PM |
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cargo
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RE: Machine Eligibility Questions.
At the end of the day a successful Manx Classic race is one when it's a good exciting race with lots of people watching...........if it takes a few TT names and an exotic bike or two to achieve that then so be it.
If we get a crappy race and nobody watching then we all lose.
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13-05-2009, 08:25 PM |
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